Amazon faces class-action lawsuit over eBook pricing

[paulsalter]

Originally Posted by DNSB

More that I am disagreeing with the implication that the average person is too stupid to realize that when the VAT on a product being sold for dropped from 20% to 0% on a product being sold for £100 and the price charged to them does not change, the seller is now collecting £100 instead of £83.33 so their profit has increased by £16.67.

It's not a case of too stupid, it's more a case of dont really care what the VAT rate is

Here is a small example for you

I went shopping on Saturday for some things (rounded prices up to nearest pound to make figures easier)

Newspaper £2
Pint of milk £1
Postage Stamps £5
Magazine £1
Greetings card £1

This comes to a nice £10
How much VAT was there on this?

This is a real example, I did not receive a receipt as it was a cash payment so did not want one

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by paulsalter

It's not a case of too stupid, it's more a case of dont really care what the VAT rate is

Here is a small example for you

I went shopping on Saturday for some things (rounded prices up to nearest pound to make figures easier)

Newspaper £2
Pint of milk £1
Postage Stamps £5
Magazine £1
Greetings card £1

This comes to a nice £10
How much VAT was there on this?

This is a real example, I did not receive a receipt as it was a cash payment so did not want one

20 pence. Going off memory, the first 4 items on your shopping list are VAT exempt so the greeting card is the only item on which you are paying VAT. Unless of course, you paid £5 for used postage stamps.

You made a cash payment? In these parts, quite a few retailers are not accepting cash. They also prefer that you use a tap credit or debit card over inserting a chip card.

[paulsalter]

Originally Posted by DNSB

20 pence. Going off memory, the first 4 items on your shopping list are VAT exempt so the greeting card is the only item on which you are paying VAT. Unless of course, you paid £5 for used postage stamps.

You made a cash payment? In these parts, quite a few retailers are not accepting cash. They also prefer that you use a tap credit or debit card over inserting a chip card.

Sounds about right, I woudnt know for certain without looking it up, i knew 3 items where exempt, wasnt sure on the others

Payments are the same here, most places prefer you to use a card, this shopping was done in a small local store, they are happy with any payment method
Not VAT related, is your tap credit the same as what we call contactless payment here?, if it is what type of limit is there on it, talk of ours going up to £100

[Pajamaman]

Someone answer me this.

The UK government cut VAT by 20% on ebooks, but the end customer pays the same price.

Question: Who made more money after the VAT cut than they did before the VAT cut?

[paulsalter]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Someone answer me this.

The UK government cut VAT by 20% on ebooks, but the price the end customer pays stays the same.

Question: Who made more money after the VAT cut?

The publisher makes more money

EDIT: i am getting confused now with all this VAT talk, could be Amazon as they are the seller and would pay VAT on sales

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by paulsalter

Not VAT related, is your tap credit the same as what we call contactless payment here?, if it is what type of limit is there on it, talk of ours going up to £100

AFAIK, tap and contactless are the same thing. The limit here used to be $100 Cdn (~£57) at most places but was increased to $250 Cdn (~£143) due to Covid-19 and a preference for contactless payment.

[paulsalter]

Originally Posted by DNSB

AFAIK, tap and contactless are the same thing. The limit here used to be $100 Cdn (~£57) at most places but was increased to $250 Cdn (~£143) due to Covid-19 and a preference for contactless payment.

Thanks, I was just curious

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

Someone answer me this.

The UK government cut VAT by 20% on ebooks, but the end customer pays the same price.

Question: Who made more money after the VAT cut than they did before the VAT cut?

As the customer who's paying the same price: I don't care.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by paulsalter

The publisher makes more money

EDIT: i am getting confused now with all this VAT talk, could be Amazon as they are the seller and would pay VAT on sales

Thank you. So either Amazon or the publishers made more money.

[DiapDealer]

Amazon lowered their ebook prices when VAT got cut. There was a huge dustup over it.

[Pajamaman]

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-...eporting-story

Tweets from Publishers:

·
Mar 11, 2020
Abolition of online news tax is a massive victory for News UK, who have been campaigning on this for years.

Brilliant news for finances of Times/FT/Telegraph and anyone with hard paywall.

If they keep the cost to consumer the same, that's a £20m boost to News UK.

The Publisher's Association tweeted:

We are delighted that the government has announced plans to #AxeTheReadingTax and zero-rate VAT on digital books and journals. It’s fantastic that @RishiSunak has acknowledged the huge value of reading and will bring an end to this illogical and unfair tax. #Budget2020

I'll bet they are delighted. Saving passed onto consumers? $Nul points. In fact it is minus points. Prices appear to have gone up. It should be called #AxeTheReadingTax; it's #AxeTheBookSellingTax.

Here's one from The Times several months after the VAT cut. It's behind a pay wall, but appears to blaming Amazon for ebook price increases after the VAT cut.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/v...rice-rsj0ndg2p

VAT ends ... but Kindle ebooks go up in price
The tax was removed in an attempt to boost sales, but readers are now paying more for many Amazon titles

The horror! The Times btw is making $$$ from the VAT cut, which they lobbied for

Now we know why the mainstream media hasn't mentioned how VAT savings weren't passed onto consumers. They planned it all, and pocketed the lot, which was obvious from the start.

The government's statement behind the VAT cut is...interesting:

Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak states in the official announcement: “We want to make it as easy as possible for people across the UK to get hold of the books they want whilst they are staying at home and saving lives. That is why we have fast tracked plans to scrap VAT on all e-publications, which will make it cheaper for publishers to sell their books, magazines and newspapers.”

But no mention of cheaper prices So the consumer got screwed, royally.

What is interesting is that it was a stitch up, as the British say, right from the start. The VAT cut was lobbied for by corporations who now are profiting from it; who are not passing on any savings to consumers; and who are blaming Amazon because e-book prices have gone up. Brilliantly machiveliean.

To add twists to the plot, the UK government were in on it, and made it appear that they were doing consumers a favor, which was never their intention, as evidenced by their official statement.

Finally, and the most psychologically fascinating of all, some consumers support this scam

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

But no mention of cheaper prices So the consumer got screwed, royally.

Royally....hehe...monarchy joke.

But seriously, how did the consumers get screwed? They didn't see a price decrease, but they wouldn't have anyway, so "same either way" can't be seen as getting screwed.
Plus, in theory, book prices are now more susceptible to market pressures, and publishers can't hide behind the VAT for an excuse, so it STILL may lead to that benefit.
Plus, if it really does lower the barrier to entry in the market and give consumers more choices, making it, as they say, "as easy as possible for people across the UK to get hold of the books they want" in some degree, isn't that a benefit to consumers?

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by ApK

But seriously, how did the consumers get screwed? They didn't see a price decrease, but they wouldn't have anyway, so "same either way" can't be seen as getting screwed.

I guess it's how you choose to see. Government cut VAT. Consumers got nothing, corporate publishers took it all.

Plus, in theory, book prices are now more susceptible to market pressures, and publishers can't hide behind the VAT for an excuse, so it STILL may lead to that benefit.

No, this has not happened. E-book prices have gone up. Double-screwed. It's Amazon's fault, according to one of the corporations that is benefiting from the VAT windfall.

Plus, if it really does lower the barrier to entry in the market and give consumers more choices, making it, as they say, "as easy as possible for people across the UK to get hold of the books they want" in some degree, isn't that a benefit to consumers?

I guess it might help indies and small publishers to undercut the big five, if they decide not to pocket the VAT as well. Have prices for non-big five e-books dropped?

[Pajamaman]

The shareholders and executives of the big five publishers must be touched by all this support.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

No, this has not happened.

It has not happened YET.