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07-31-2018, 08:31 PM | #136 | |
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Just as people of intelligence can read books that have slavery, without burning them or pretending that it never existed, or worse, painting historical time periods as happy-happy-joy-joy worlds. (I'll leave that to "Historical Romances" which take extraordinary pains to be "historically accurate," other than pesky things like personal hygiene...) Ask yourself one simple question--ignoring any/all behavior that can remotely possibly be categorized as "historic" or a "more of the day that's updated today," look at the behavior of TTM, and ask if you'd find it charming or funny or rollicking today. So, Musketeer Paul, today, dates some married woman. He needs money, so he convinces her to steal her own jewelry, that her husband gave her, and give it to him. He takes it and pretty much then promptly dumps her, and parties with his buddies, yucking it up about how he conned her into doing so. Yeah, right--that's me, disliking that behavior for being Politically Incorrect. That's what is being said? That this was perfectly acceptable behavior, then? And we're only offended now? Sorry--I don't see PC entering into this at all, and nor do I see any of that behavior as being honorable or noble or anything like that, pretty much at any time in history amongst remotely civilized people. Even if you take out all the sexual bits, or that Porthos was sleeping with a married woman, etc., he got her to steal, then dumped her, leaving her alone to face the music. That's honorable? THEN, or now? Musketeer Art (Athos) loves a woman. He finds out that she didn't tell him everyhtng about her past--let's say, (as is Milady, mind you), she's been ACCUSED of a crime. In fact, some friend tells him she's a convict. He doesn't give her a chance to defend herself, or even say that she never WAS a convict--taht someone tarred her rep on the Net, and said she's a convict, and now she can't get rid of that false accusation. Art's pride is damaged, so rather than admit to his buddies or family that, gasp!, he married someone beneath him, he conspires to murder her--unsucessfully, which he learns later. Yeah, right--political correctness makes me think he's a dishonorable, selfish schmuck. 'Cuz, really, he's a rollicking, funny, lovable hero! Of COURSE he'd murder her! Who wouldn't? Damn that political correctness, yo! Yeah, man, of course, EVERYBODY behaved that way, "way back then." I think that people had a preconceived notion, due to the movies, and that created a confirmation bias that the books were going to be WONDERFUL. I hope, truly, that's what I'm seeing here. After all, even the infamous "One for All and All for One" doesn't bloody exist, by any evidence of their behavior throughout. They can hardly be bothered to think about each other, nevermind go to extraordinary lengths to watch each other's backs, rush to the rescue, etc. if that's worthless; if that doesn't exist in the books...well. Hitch |
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07-31-2018, 08:38 PM | #137 | |
cacoethes scribendi
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I'd also add that the recent-historical consensus would seem to be that the characters were supposed to be heroic and chivalrous (and fun, yes I concede that even modern consensus is seems to include an aspect of humour). If there's one line that identifies this story in modern times it's "All for one and one for all!" That seems to be the story people wanted to see in this book, so that's what they've pulled out, however hard they have to work at ignoring what's really there. Last edited by gmw; 07-31-2018 at 08:41 PM. |
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08-01-2018, 05:19 AM | #138 |
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08-01-2018, 05:32 AM | #139 |
Close to the Edit!
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08-01-2018, 07:26 AM | #140 | |
o saeclum infacetum
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08-01-2018, 08:14 AM | #141 |
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Just a sidebar.
Until recent times, rich men had wives and often kept mistresses. And paid for their support. That's how you got the term "kept woman". Why does it seem strange that a rich woman might want to have a "kept man"? A drinking, swashbuckling, very masculine, "kept man"? And how would such a man perceive himself? Food for thought. . . |
08-01-2018, 10:43 AM | #142 | |
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08-01-2018, 12:06 PM | #143 |
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Harry Flashman would have fit right in with the Musketeers.
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08-01-2018, 12:22 PM | #144 |
o saeclum infacetum
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08-01-2018, 12:33 PM | #145 |
(he/him/his)
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You're right, he was at least self-aware. However, his general behaviour was why I ultimately couldn't enjoy Flashman. And I did try.
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08-01-2018, 12:41 PM | #146 |
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George MacDonald Fraser wrote the screenplay for the 70s Musketeer movies, though in the movie they were more roguish than despicable.
I think the various abridgments, comics, and adaptations have improved the image of the musketeers in the public's mind. |
08-02-2018, 10:06 PM | #147 | |
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Hitch |
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08-02-2018, 11:31 PM | #148 | |
o saeclum infacetum
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08-03-2018, 01:13 AM | #149 |
Snoozing in the sun
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I second that. Club members are united in wanting this to be a place for courteous discussion.
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08-03-2018, 03:36 AM | #150 | |
cacoethes scribendi
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And I don't think you need the "until recent times" qualifier. The double standard still holds in many (most?) parts of the world. |
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