What would make Kobo surpass Kindle?

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Stevex

The point i was making was nothing to do with drm (as such) or epub being 'better'
Amazon are basically converting reading to a streaming service, where the content ison their servers and they stream the presentation to the device
Even today I guess the vast majority of kindle users do not bother with offline copies, their books are on Amazon servers available on demand.
I do keep my Calibre libraries in the cloud as well but I also keep multiple offline backups.
Can you be sure Amazon will still exist in 20 years? That your home territory and Amazon will be under compatible legal systems. Etc etc. A lot can happen in 2 or 3 decades and even if it's only a one in a thousand chance that's still one too many for me.

Honestly? I think the chances of Amazon existing in 20 years is much higher than the chances of Kobo or B&N existing in 20 years. And do you really think most Nook users or Kobo users back up their online library locally? Maybe most here (in this small subset of eBook buyers) but I'm guessing the vast majority of eBook buyers (at B&N and Kobo) rely on their respective ecosystems for storage (just like Amazon users).

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Braid

I don't understand what you mean by this. When I purchase a book from amazon, it downloads automatically onto my Kindle the next time I sync it. From that point on, the file is on my Kindle and I can do what I want with it, regardless of whether I am online or offline.

How is this not the case with the "vast majority" of Kindle users?

It is the case. But, in a lot of ways, the device is under Amazons control. And the book is still in the Amazon ecosystem. If they decide you shouldn't have a book, the next time you sync it will disappear. And if you lose that device, or something happens that you have to do a factory reset, you lose the books until you sort that out. And if you were half-way up the Amazon at the time, it might be a while until you can get access to the books.

The offline copies that Stevex and others are referring to are copies taken outside the Amazon ecosystem completely. The purpose might be for backup, or to read them on non-Amazon ereaders or apps. The belief is that most people with ereaders, buy from the attached shop, read the book and then forget about it. It doesn't matter if the device is a Kindle, Kobo or other, or they use one of the store based apps. This means that if that store disappeared tomorrow, these people would lose access to their books. They would notice the loss of the book they are reading, or planned to read, but they probably wouldn't care about the books they have already read.

[rcentros]

Originally Posted by Stevex

- I give it max 5 years till it's no longer possible to back up Amazon-purchased books (even with all the apprentices).

Why do you think this?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by davidfor

It is the case. But, in a lot of ways, the device is under Amazons control. And the book is still in the Amazon ecosystem. If they decide you shouldn't have a book, the next time you sync it will disappear. And if you lose that device, or something happens that you have to do a factory reset, you lose the books until you sort that out. And if you were half-way up the Amazon at the time, it might be a while until you can get access to the books.

The offline copies that Stevex and others are referring to are copies taken outside the Amazon ecosystem completely. The purpose might be for backup, or to read them on non-Amazon ereaders or apps. The belief is that most people with ereaders, buy from the attached shop, read the book and then forget about it. It doesn't matter if the device is a Kindle, Kobo or other, or they use one of the store based apps. This means that if that store disappeared tomorrow, these people would lose access to their books. They would notice the loss of the book they are reading, or planned to read, but they probably wouldn't care about the books they have already read.

I would possibly notice the ones I paid for. The freebies not so much read or unread.
That is Amazon.
Kobo are all freebies.

[Tony1988]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Honestly? I think the chances of Amazon existing in 20 years is much higher than the chances of Kobo or B&N existing in 20 years. And do you really think most Nook users or Kobo users back up their online library locally? Maybe most here (in this small subset of eBook buyers) but I'm guessing the vast majority of eBook buyers (at B&N and Kobo) rely on their respective ecosystems for storage (just like Amazon users).

At this point ebook readers should know the score. Worrying about if one is gonna have an ebook 20 years later is kinda silly. If it is indeed a worry for people it's probably best just to stick with paper.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Stevex

...The vast majority of people don't think about backing up their books, though in my opinion they should. They rely on Amazon.

Yes, but those people also aren't likely expecting their e-books to be available unto eternity. I know several other people that read on e-readers, and I'm the only one that doesn't use a Kindle, the only one that uses Calibre, the only one that even understands that there are e-book formats.

The folks on this board treat our digital collections like they are the same as our physical libraries. But that vast majority you referenced just doesn't see it that way

[Shad Plante]

Originally Posted by Stevex

- I give it max 5 years till it's no longer possible to back up Amazon-purchased books (even with all the apprentices).

Looking at Amazon's behavior, I would say they don't want Joe Schmoe being able to backup his books. Keeping the average consumer locked in gets them more revenue.

For some people though, cutting off being able to back up books would drive them somewhere else. As long as there is revenue to be had not completely locking everything down, they won't.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Shad Plante

Looking at Amazon's behavior, I would say they don't want Joe Schmoe being able to backup his books. Keeping the average consumer locked in gets them more revenue.

For some people though, cutting off being able to back up books would drive them somewhere else. As long as there is revenue to be had not completely locking everything down, they won't.

How does me not backing up my books give Amazon more revenue?
Just because I own a kindle does not mean I get all my books there.
I can put books from the library here on a kindle with no jailbreaking, no format shifting or doing anything to the file. All I need is a computer and a cable.
I am not locked into an ecosystem. I wish people that don't know about Kindles would stop saying it is a locked ecosystem. I just have to use a compatible format.
I do not have to buy my books at Amazon to use a kindle.

Now I do not like PDF on either ereader.

[Cinisajoy]

Oh and Kobo already surpasses Kindle

Spoiler:

in the dictionary.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Oh and Kobo already surpasses Kindle

Spoiler:

in the dictionary.

Hmmm.... if cleanliness is next to godliness, you own a severely abridged dictionary...

[compurandom]

So I have books for basically two different purposes.

There are books I read once and toss. A lot of those I get from the library or otherwise borrow. Amazon's "stream" concept would work very well for me there.

Then there are books I use for reference or read over and over for some reason. These books I want to own, I want to have them with me always if possible. For these books, I need expanded storage (currently 16-50 G depending on the subset), and I want to own them. Unfortunately, amazon has a history of deleting bought books from the device, and for this reason alone, I can't accept or trust their walled garden.

And the vast majority of my owned digital books are from free sources (pdf manuals from vendors, gutenberg press, self authored, etc.), so for me side loading is also a must.

So with these features in mind, Kobo is already (nearly) the best device for me.

If not considering any specific device, and you asked "what makes an ereader better", I'd put qualifications in this order -- others may swap the order:

1) Clear readable text, especially in direct sunlight so I can read outside, but also at night and in dark rooms; the former allows it to replace paper books, the latter makes it replace paper books. Without this, I'll go back to paper books or just read on my computer screen.

2) Ability to index and sort books so I can find them. I have a couple thousand books, this is critical. My physical bookshelf is sorted by topic and/or usage. My ereader has lots of tags on books. If I can't sort and find my books, the ereader is useless. This was one of the things I hated most about the nook. 5 books at a time with a very limited ability to organize them. This is also the feature I miss most from my Sony PRS which supported hierarchical shelves. (I'll take boolean tag search over heirarchal shelves in a hot minute, but I've never seen any e-reader support that!)

3) Good ecosystem for obtaining new books. For many people, this would be #1. For me, this means being able to side load at will, being able to get books from the library, and having a good selection and prices of books from the store. I've nearly stopped buying paper books from B&N because they have what I want only 1/10 times, but I still keep giving them chances.


Oh: re "clear readable text" this also means good fonts. I got a paper book with awful fonts from amazon recently, almost made me regret buying it. And there are so many poorly formatted epubs. Kobo lets me fix that mostly, but calibre does it even better.

[Shad Plante]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

How does me not backing up my books give Amazon more revenue?
Just because I own a kindle does not mean I get all my books there.
I can put books from the library here on a kindle with no jailbreaking, no format shifting or doing anything to the file. All I need is a computer and a cable.
I am not locked into an ecosystem. I wish people that don't know about Kindles would stop saying it is a locked ecosystem. I just have to use a compatible format.
I do not have to buy my books at Amazon to use a kindle.

Now I do not like PDF on either ereader.

Whether or not you back up your books has no impact on Amazon revenue. Caring about whether or not you can will impact their revenue if you would stop shopping at Amazon if you knew you could no longer back them up or get them to a different ereader if you chose.

You are correct that what locks a lot of people in is not that Amazon’s ecosystem is that locked. It is how easy everything is when you stay in the Amazon sandbox.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Stevex

The point i was making was nothing to do with drm (as such) or epub being 'better'
Amazon are basically converting reading to a streaming service, where the content ison their servers and they stream the presentation to the device
Even today I guess the vast majority of kindle users do not bother with offline copies, their books are on Amazon servers available on demand.
I do keep my Calibre libraries in the cloud as well but I also keep multiple offline backups.
Can you be sure Amazon will still exist in 20 years? That your home territory and Amazon will be under compatible legal systems. Etc etc. A lot can happen in 2 or 3 decades and even if it's only a one in a thousand chance that's still one too many for me.

You can say the same of virtually all of the players. Certainly all of the major ones.

[johnnyb]

Originally Posted by Stevex

I have seen your posts and you are very biased.

Perhaps, but that bias is based on extensive experience.

[anacreon]

Originally Posted by Tony1988

At this point ebook readers should know the score. Worrying about if one is gonna have an ebook 20 years later is kinda silly. If it is indeed a worry for people it's probably best just to stick with paper.

I'm building an electronic reference library, much of it books I already have on paper. I have more and more problems with paper: the weight and volume (for my arthritic hands as well as for my walls), the degrading paper, the sensitivity to light, dryness, wetness, characters that are sometimes becoming difficult to read, the difficulty finding a book among thousands, a sentence in a book, are what first come to mind. And I back-up my books, several hard drives at home and at least one away. It is easy with at present under 10 Gb, unlike music or photos which run in the hundreds.

Of course I still have many paper books: art books, beautiful books, books that don't exist in electronic versions, manuals and such. And books do furnish a room, and I do have an attachment to many.