Air travel restrictions

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by piperclassique

We are of course assuming that the intelligence services have correct information. How do we know this?

To paraphrase Einstein, it's not that I believe that the people whose job it is to assess the validity of these threats are always right, but simply that they're more likely to be right than posters on an Internet forum.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

This whole thing is pretty ridiculous, on the face of it. Seriously...if a bomb can be hidden in a laptop or tablet, what is the difference between having it in the cabin or the hold? Either way, the plane will go down when the bomb goes off.

The difference, apparently, is that a bomb does hugely more damage if it's against the skin of the aircraft than if it's in a cargo container. Particularly given the fact that a bomb hidden in a laptop battery must, by its very nature, be rather small.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The difference, apparently, is that a bomb does hugely more damage if it's against the skin of the aircraft than if it's in a cargo container. Particularly given the fact that a bomb hidden in a laptop battery must, by its very nature, be rather small.

Yes...one laptop battery. So what's to stop a terrorist from putting multiple bomb-laden pieces of electronics in their luggage? And, of course, they could have multiple people flying together, each with multiple bomb-laden pieces of electronics.

If I can think of this, why in the world wouldn't a terrorist be able to?

Shari

[HarryT]

Shari,

I'm not claiming to have the answers to any of this. Unlike some on this forum, though, I am prepared to believe that these measures are put in place to protect me, and as a frequent traveller for both business and pleasure, that makes me happy. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It could get to the point where most people stop flying.

That's what I've done. Besides, at my age, my arms tire rather quickly

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Shari,

I'm not claiming to have the answers to any of this. Unlike some on this forum, though, I am prepared to believe that these measures are put in place to protect me, and as a frequent traveller for both business and pleasure, that makes me happy. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise.

I'm just saying that if this were really a credible threat, all electronics would be banned on all flights. Since they're not, it makes me question the validity of the threat, or the intelligence of the agencies that instituted the ban.

Shari

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by shalym

This whole thing is pretty ridiculous, on the face of it. Seriously...if a bomb can be hidden in a laptop or tablet, what is the difference between having it in the cabin or the hold? Either way, the plane will go down when the bomb goes off.

Shari

Exactly!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm just saying that if this were really a credible threat, all electronics would be banned on all flights. Since they're not, it makes me question the validity of the threat, or the intelligence of the agencies that instituted the ban.

Shari

As I said above, Shari, and no offence intended, I put more faith in the people whose job it is to do this stuff than I do in the opinions of people on Internet forums. I guess you'll have to find some other way to travel if flying becomes intolerable for you.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As I said above, Shari, and no offence intended, I put more faith in the people whose job it is to do this stuff than I do in the opinions of people on Internet forums. I guess you'll have to find some other way to travel if flying becomes intolerable for you.

No offense taken. I only fly now when I absolutely have to. Usually, I just drive. Saves me money, and lowers my stress level. It's a win-win situation. I do feel bad for those who have to fly a lot for business, though.

Shari

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Unfortunately there are strong rumours in the travel industry that the restrictions will be extended to all flights - at least for the UK.

Looks like they're considering expanding it in the US...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/politi...rts/index.html

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm just saying that if this were really a credible threat, all electronics would be banned on all flights. Since they're not, it makes me question the validity of the threat, or the intelligence of the agencies that instituted the ban.

Or they think that what they're doing is enough to handle the threat and are trying to balance an outright ban with acting responsibly on current info they possess? Perhaps the explosives screening at the listed airports is especially low tech/bad or something? Not really sure.

Perhaps they'll come out with an all up ban soon. I believe I read somewhere that some of the people that decide these things argued for one.

[crich70]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's not my threshold that matters, but the decisions reached by the people whose job it is to determine the credibility of threats and advise the government on the appropriate level of response. Do you claim to have the knowledge to judge the seriousness of these threats? I don't.

But what is the likelyhood of a terrorist going to the trouble to make a laptop into a bomb? Far more likely I would think for them to use a more conventional type of explosive device. The Boston Marathon bombers for example used pressure cookers and some sort of explosive material. Very low tech I would imagine, and in Oklahoma City they used fertilizer and diesel fuel. Again low tech with easy to source materials.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by shalym

No offense taken. I only fly now when I absolutely have to. Usually, I just drive. Saves me money, and lowers my stress level. It's a win-win situation. I do feel bad for those who have to fly a lot for business, though.

Shari

Unfortunately that's really not practical for me. Most of my travel is to Egypt. It's a 5h flight from the UK; getting there by a combination of land and sea travel would take around 7-10 days, and involve travel by somewhat dubious means such as a ferry from Instanbul to Alexandria. Sadly the days of decent sea transport (as a means of transport, as opposed to a cruise ship) are long gone.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by crich70

But what is the likelyhood of a terrorist going to the trouble to make a laptop into a bomb?

There's a very active terrorist group in Yemen who specialises in precisely that. It's material recovered during a raid by US special forces on one of their camps in January that's believed to be the cause of these travel restrictions.

[robko]

What I would question Harry is are they looking at the tradeoffs of forcing all electronics to the cargo hold. Sure there has been a laptop bomb smuggled, but how many Li-ion battery fires have there been in airliner cabins in the last 18 months? And how much worse would that be if they had happened in the cargo hold rather than in the cabin where they could be dealt with right away? Maybe they are looking at that, but unfortunately the "politics" of it will be that they'll be more afraid of a bomb (perceived as their fault) than a fire from a phone (not their fault).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by robko

What I would question Harry is are they looking at the tradeoffs of forcing all electronics to the cargo hold. Sure there has been a laptop bomb smuggled, but how many Li-ion battery fires have there been in airliner cabins in the last 18 months?

I haven't the faintest idea, I'm afraid.