What are eBooks?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Couldn't the "gate keeping" from publishers easily be replaced by other mechanisms (that already exist today)? I think not that many people use publishers in the way HarryT uses Baen. You could use recommendations of your favorite critic for example. Only read books recommended by people with similar tastes to yours, review blogs, goodreads, even amazons reviews and "people who bought this".

To say it in a more abstract way: Why not replace gate keepers with filters?

Certainly there are other ways of finding books to read, but the fact that the task can be accomplished by other means does not - for me at least - mean that it's not a valuable role for a publisher to play.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Couldn't the "gate keeping" from publishers easily be replaced by other mechanisms (that already exist today)? I think not that many people use publishers in the way HarryT uses Baen. You could use recommendations of your favorite critic for example. Only read books recommended by people with similar tastes to yours, review blogs, goodreads, even amazons reviews and "people who bought this".

To say it in a more abstract way: Why not replace gate keepers with filters?

That would require HarryT to acknowledge the difference between "Baen the trusted entity with similar tastes" and "Baen the publisher".


Now, I have no problem with him saying he trusts Baen and is happy to stick with their recommendations (what they feel is worth publishing).
But I think it is a little disingenuous to compare that to not-buying-indie-because-there's-no-guarantee-of-any-quality-whatsoever.

Because by the same measure, I assume he doesn't Just Buy books published by PRH, S&S, HC, Hachette, or Macmillan.


As I understand HarryT's position, it has nothing to do with whether a book is indie or not, and everything to do with whether it is Baen or not.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

That would require HarryT to acknowledge the difference between "Baen the trusted entity with similar tastes" and "Baen the publisher".


Now, I have no problem with him saying he trusts Baen and is happy to stick with their recommendations (what they feel is worth publishing).
But I think it is a little disingenuous to compare that to not-buying-indie-because-there's-no-guarantee-of-any-quality-whatsoever.

Because by the same measure, I assume he doesn't Just Buy books published by PRH, S&S, HC, Hachette, or Macmillan.


As I understand HarryT's position, it has nothing to do with whether a book is indie or not, and everything to do with whether it is Baen or not.

You're partially correct.

Baen is the only publisher from whom I buy books "sight unseen", knowing nothing about them. I buy every one of their "monthly bundles" not knowing what's in it. Ie I trust Baen to deliver me a good package of four new books every month, which may be authors I'm familiar with, or they may be authors entirely new to me. I know that other people do the same with specialist imprints like Harlequin.

Other traditional publishers I buy from because I'm familiar with the author, or the book, or because it's been recommended to me. However, with a traditional publisher I can be confident that the book will be reasonably well-edited, and free from egregious errors of spelling and/or grammar. I don't have that same confidence with self-published books.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly there are other ways of finding books to read, but the fact that the task can be accomplished by other means does not - for me at least - mean that it's not a valuable role for a publisher to play.

The difference is between acknowledging that trad publishers currently perform that function, and availing ourselves of it, versus thinking that the trad publishing system must be supported and continued so that they may continue to perform that function.
The former is a practical reality allowing us to enjoy the world we live in, the latter is a missed opportunity to improve the world.

ApK

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ApK

The difference is between acknowledging that trad publishers currently perform that function, and availing ourselves of it, versus thinking that the trad publishing system must be supported and continued so that they may continue to perform that function.
The form is a practical reality to enjoy the world we live in, the latter is a missed opportunity to improve the world.

ApK

That's certainly a valid viewpoint. I choose to support traditional publishers because I value their function. Anyone who feels otherwise is free to act otherwise. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" situation; there's ample room in the market for both traditional and self-publishers.

[cvkemp]

I have read self published books, and I have liked some and not others. I do not look at the print, as much as the quaility of the writing. I can always change the format and even if needed to fix spelling. But I have to say I have found misspelled words and bad grammar even in the best publishers books.
I read for enjoyment, so if it is a good read I am happy.

[Cinisajoy]

Personally, I read both. Now I have no clue whether they are traditional, self-published, formerly traditional not self-published, imprints or whatever else might be out there.
Of course I am also very cheap and tend to buy used paperback and on sale or free ebooks.
Have I been disappointed at times. Yes. But hey so what if I lost 10 minutes on a bad book. I was probably either taking a bath or waiting on the dog to do his business.
Have I liked everything that I picked up that was traditional.? No.
I love mysteries but there is one author whose books started out like a dissertation and travel guide. I think there were at least 2 pages of explanation for one line of the actual story.
She is very traditionally published.
Have I liked everything indie? No.
Though I must say over the last few years I have gotten way pickier on all books.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You're partially correct.

Baen is the only publisher from whom I buy books "sight unseen", knowing nothing about them. I buy every one of their "monthly bundles" not knowing what's in it. Ie I trust Baen to deliver me a good package of four new books every month, which may be authors I'm familiar with, or they may be authors entirely new to me. I know that other people do the same with specialist imprints like Harlequin.

Other traditional publishers I buy from because I'm familiar with the author, or the book, or because it's been recommended to me. However, with a traditional publisher I can be confident that the book will be reasonably well-edited, and free from egregious errors of spelling and/or grammar. I don't have that same confidence with self-published books.

Now, this is precisely what I don't understand.

You only buy books where "[you are] familiar with the author, or the book, or because it's been recommended to me".
I consider Baen to be the aforementioned trusted recommendations.


Given that, I can assume, I hope, that any book which was recommended to you has been reasonably well-edited, and is free from egregious spelling/grammar errors.
Likewise with any book which you are already familiar with (wait, this only covers repurchases ) or with the author...

If someone recommends an indie-published book to you, and you trust that person's recommendations, will you really reject it because other indie books that you weren't recommended haven't been edited?
If you have already read books by that author (because someone recommended their indie book and you liked it), do you have a legitimate fear that the next book won't be edited?

Or do you have a list of people whose recommendations you trust who will recommend absolute garbage that hasn't been near an editor, and if so, on what grounds do you trust their recommendations?




It seems to me that you are making an illogical split between "unedited books that would never be recommended to me" and "edited books that have been recommended to me", by automatically assigning all indie books to the former on the basis that tradpub books belong exclusively to the latter.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Given that, I can assume, I hope, that any book which was recommended to you has been reasonably well-edited, and is free from egregious spelling/grammar errors.
Likewise with any book which you are already familiar with (wait, this only covers repurchases ) or with the author...

If someone recommends an indie-published book to you, and you trust that person's recommendations, will you really reject it because other indie books that you weren't recommended haven't been edited?
If you have already read books by that author (because someone recommended their indie book and you liked it), do you have a legitimate fear that the next book won't be edited?

Or do you have a list of people whose recommendations you trust who will recommend absolute garbage that hasn't been near an editor, and if so, on what grounds do you trust their recommendations?

We've already had this discussion earlier in the thread, so there's no point in re-hashing it all again. Basically, though, to summarise, people have a wide range of tolerances to such errors, and mine is very low. I am therefore wary of recommendations of self-published books because although I might know that the recommender share my taste in subject matter, generally speaking I won't know how tolerant they are of errors.

See earlier in the thread for a much fuller discussion.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

We've already had this discussion earlier in the thread, so there's no point in re-hashing it all again. Basically, though, to summarise, people have a wide range of tolerances to such errors, and mine is very low. I am therefore wary of recommendations of self-published books because although I might know that the recommender share my taste in subject matter, generally speaking I won't know how tolerant they are of errors.

See earlier in the thread for a much fuller discussion.

Have you ever got a book in the Baen bundles that you didn't like?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Have you ever got a book in the Baen bundles that you didn't like?

Certainly. I'd estimate that I enjoy perhaps 85-90% of them, which is a pretty good success rate.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly. I'd estimate that I enjoy perhaps 85-90% of them, which is a pretty good success rate.

That is a good success rate.
Now just as an aside what is your favorite type of Science Fiction?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Can you explain why you believe them to be "less than selective" about what they publish?

Well, they are definitely less selective than some other publishers since they do not care about the authors opinion. They publish everybody if they think the book will sell to their market.

They also have a specialized market so which is books structured in a certain way. A well told story is for them always much more important than other factors of the book. That is because that is selling to their readers.

Personally I can read these kind of books but I really want to have better books for most of my reading. A well told story is not enough for me. For other readers that is the only thing that is important.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly. I'd estimate that I enjoy perhaps 85-90% of them, which is a pretty good success rate.

If you just enjoy them I would say the success rate is very bad.

How many of them are mind-blowingly good?

[HarryT]

It's what I think that counts - it's my reading .