Would you be e-reading if DRM was unbreakable?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by latepaul

OK, here's an interesting way to think about the issue.

[...snip...]

Which means for most people the deal is reasonable. Or can certainly be made reasonable at the right price.

Of course this is true.

Something that fall into this category (for me) are all smartphone apps and games I have; most are free, some I've paid between $0.1 and $1 for, and I don't care one whit what happens with them. Also, I don't have a lot of them. They serve their purpose: provide me some entertainment if I get stuck waiting somewhere unexpectedly, and I don't have anything to do. (I don't *always* have my reader with me.)

I'd switch phone platforms without a second thought if I see a need to do so.

The most important app in this respect is DroidFish (Stockfish chess engine port for Android), but I'm sure there's a decent chess app on any platform. I don't care if it's Stockfish (Android, iOS), PortFish (Stockfish on WinPhone/RT), Shredder, Chess Genius or PocketFritz as long as it has a somewhat decent GUI and adjustable strength.

Books, movies, and computer games are not in this category. With those, it's just a question of principle. I paid for it, I want control over it, without being dependent on the seller or manufacturer. If I can't, I don't want it.

It doesn't matter to me if the book, movie, game or software cost $100, $10, or even $1.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

It's exactly what Alf does. It uses ADE's or K4PC's decription key. The difference is that ADE just shows you the book when it's decripted, Alf and friends actually save the decripted book to a new file.

I thought the apps used an encryption based somehow on the system info?

iTunes uses a public/private key pair unique to each purchase, etc. blah blah blah the height of encryption... and still fails, despite being far more complex, b/c of the same underlying problem.

No such thing as unbreakable DRM without stopping the reader from reading altogether. You have to give them the key without "giving" the key.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

I thought the apps used an encryption based somehow on the system info?

AFAIK with ADE and K4PC, the key is attached to your Adobe/Amazon ID/e-mail address. Alf nicks the keys right out of the configuration files of the applications. Therefore, Alf doesn't actually "crack" or "break" the DRM, it just decrypts the book.

Try it. Alf doesn't work if ADE or K4PC are not set up correctly.

The difference is that Alf can save the book to a new file after decrypting. Obviously, ADE and K4PC could to, but they won't. Ever.

By the way: my e-mail addresses at Kobo, Amazon and Adobe (ADE) are all different. When I download a book from my Kobo Library, I get an ASCM file, which can be used to make ADE download the book. I assume that this ASCM file contains some sort of unique data for that particular book, generated at the moment I buy the book. The Adobe server has to save that information when providing the book to me. If it didn't, I could use the same ASCM file over and over again in different Adobe ADE accounts, and I don't assume that this is possible. I can, however, download the book over and over again.

===

Also, I manage another Kobo account for someone else (with yet another e-mail address), and I just download the books using my own Adobe / ADE ID. Then I de-DRM the books, and put them into their own calibre library on my computer without changing anything apart from fixing metadata where needed.

The person whom I manage this account for doesn't have an inkling about computers or ebooks or formats or anything. He uses a tablet, for the one and only purpose of browsing the internet and the Kobo store. At some point I'll get a call to get some books, and after he brings his reader I put the books onto it, and that's all.

The reason to use a different Kobo account is to keep his books out of my Kobo Library, but ADE makes no problem with regard to the different e-mail address.

Originally Posted by eschwartz

No such thing as unbreakable DRM without stopping the reader from reading altogether. You have to give them the key without "giving" the key.

Yes. You must give them the key, but do it in such a way that it can't be easily found. However, at some point, the key will be found. (Look at DVD's, Blu-Ray's, etc... they can all be ripped and copied.) Encrypting the key is not a solution, as the key used to create that encryption will need to be on hand.... so it just adds an extra step.

It is as you say: the harder the DRM becomes to break, the harder it will be to actually access the media. At some point the DRM will be so cumbersome that the media is useless, for all intents and purposes.

[BearMountainBooks]

You didn't have a "keep right on reading like I do now." I don't pay any mind to DRM being there or not. I buy what I want and don't worry about it. When I buy a book, I generally get to it right away or soon so if my e-reader crapped out, I wouldn't be out much. I have a megaton of freebies but since they were free, if I never read them I'm not out much. I generally sample freebies within a month of getting them and the vast majority of them are deleted unread.

So to answer the question, I'd just keep on keepin' on.

Originally Posted by PurpleStar

There isn't much choice but to keep buying DVD's (or Blu-Rays). iTunes isn't really an option for movies because they're only viewable with Apple devices or Apple TV and I believe the DRM is unbreakable. Which is why I don't buy movies or tv shows from iTunes.

I'm fairly certain that you could view them with a Windows PC. But yeah Android devices, Linux computers, and other platforms are not able to view movies purchased through iTunes.

The big thing for me though is the cost. DVD copies of the movies are usually cheaper, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same held true for Bluray. That's true even though you can't resell the downloadable copies, or even lend them to a friend. Something similar can be said of ebooks, though the relative cost is somewhat more variable.

[Quexos]

If this disease that is DRM was unbreakable, well we would be one step closer to an Orwellian society and I would have no other choice than to read books on paper or simply not read anymore. Luckily this is not the case.

[FacebookVirus]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Download a pirated copy of the book, then buy it from Amazon to assuage my conscience.

Same here

Not only that, but having a copy I've stripped DRM from gives me a nice feeling, but I'm slowly realizing how little actual difference it makes to me.

It reminds me of the days I lived surrounded by books I had read, boosting my ego but gathering dust.

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Ummm….. you may not have noticed, but in the scheme you suggest, the buyer has the private key needed to decrypt the content.

When we discuss unbreakable DRM, we don't mean DRM that's unbreakable by a third party, but a DRM that prevents the person buying the product from obtaining a DRM-free version of the product from the DRMed product.

You're right, sort of. My assumption was that the reading software wouldn't allow the user to save the decrypted book to a different file. (None of them explicitly do that now but, as others have pointed out, that is what Alf's tools do-so I simply didn't follow my thought far enough.)

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

When we discuss unbreakable DRM, we don't mean DRM that's unbreakable by a third party, but a DRM that prevents the person buying the product from obtaining a DRM-free version of the product from the DRMed product.

In addition, actually breaking the DRM (or removing it like Alf does by "stealing" the keys) is what is key here.

It's obvious that DRM can be "broken" by opening the book on your reader, and then typing away on your computer, or by taking screenshots and OCR-ing and that sort of thing.

That's copying the book using The Analog Loophole, not removing or cracking the DRM. It works, but it's a hell of a lot more work than alfing your purchases.

[jl_carter]

Originally Posted by elemenoP

Your original question is "Would you be e-reading if DRM was unbreakable?" My answer is YES but there is no option for that in the poll.

eP

Precisely, the poll assumes everyone is opposed to DRM - I have no problems with it. I know how to break DRM, but in 4 years of reading ebooks I've never needed to.

[Ekaros]

I buy games on Steam. It's DRM platform.

But it has developed to DRM that is unintrusive. If books worked in same way, yes I would consider buing ebooks with DRM...

[Dopedangel]

I got into ereading 17-18 years ago with Pirated books those days most ebooks that were available were pirated or from gutenberg.
In those days I did not have access to lot of the english fiction books dead tree or otherwise in the first place. Now live in a country with access to large libraries and e-libraries as well as the ability and the finances to buy the ebooks so now pirate a lot less. Still do sometimes for books that are not available to me because of geographic restrictions or are priced very high for me but cheaper for people in other countries.

[Valkrider]

A faulty set of options. It presupposes that you read on a dedicated reader and not a tablet. On a tablet you may not be able to read using your reader app of choice BUT you could still read any book. This is what I would do using Kindle or Marvin to read what I had purchased.

[vorguees]

I would, not at the same speed as I do now, but would do.

[Kumabjorn]

Welcome to the board vorguees.