"fan fiction "......

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Not to mention girl meets frog.

And that old classic - Prince gets so drunk that he can only recognize woman by shoe size.

I know a couple of Romanian children stories with girl meets pig.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Financial gain is not a consideration in deciding whether or not a use infringes copyright. It can be a factor in awarding compensation, but not in determining whether or not the offence has taken place.

The "purpose and character" of the use is one of the four factors to be considered; "not for profit" leans toward fair use. "Effect of use on the market" is another factor--and "not for profit" means "isn't grabbing money that would otherwise be going to the source market."

Being free doesn't guarantee something is non-infringing, but a deliberate choice to keep the use of copyrighted material away from financial issues, makes it more likely to be fair use.

However, that's mere background dressing to the real claim: that fanfiction is not infringing because it's a transformative use. The deciding factors for that are:

• Has the material taken from the original work been transformed by adding new expression or meaning?
• Was value added to the original by creating new information, new aesthetics, new insights, and understandings?

Portraying a villain in the original as a sympathetic character adds new insights. Portraying a romance not obvious in the original can add new information or new meaning. Depicting the original relationship dynamics in a new genre setting adds new aesthetics. And so on.

Whether fanfiction is infringing should be judged by the same criteria as whether a review is infringing: does it quote too much without adding its own insights?

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I know a couple of Romanian children stories with girl meets pig.

They aren't stories, that's waking up the morning after many beers

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

They aren't stories, that's waking up the morning after many beers

In the stories the pig turns into Prince Charming. I guess that the stories were meant to show young girls that were married off to metaphorical pigs that if they put up with it they would find that the pig is really Prince Charming. In case you are wondering, in the stories they don't sit quietly and take advice on how to keep their husbands in human form (they took human form at night ) which is a big mistake that gets them searching for their husbands for years until they find then and live happily ever after.

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Financial gain is not a consideration in deciding whether or not a use infringes copyright. It can be a factor in awarding compensation, but not in determining whether or not the offence has taken place.

As I said, I am commenting on the United States, not any other country. It is not the sole determinant of whether something is fair use, but it is one of many items that would be considered.

--
Bill

[Yapyap]

There's an interesting article by Sherwood Smith today discussing some of the same issues this thread has touched upon:

http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2012/07...nion-of-ideas/

[carpetmojo]

Well, glad I brought this topic up - it seems to have touched nerves, or tickled fancies.

A surprising number of both, too.

I must report nothing has changed my opinion (and I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels as I do) but thanks for the opportunity.

[spindlegirl]

................................................

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

In spite of my distaste for it, I still support my daughter's endeavors because I want to encourage her to do the things that make HER happy.

Is it right to encourage your daughter to commit copyright infringement? I'm sure you wouldn't encourage her to download pirated books or music, would you?

[Yapyap]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Is it right to encourage your daughter to commit copyright infringement? I'm sure you wouldn't encourage her to download pirated books or music, would you?

What if her daughter is a fan of an author/show where the creators encourage fan fiction / fan activity? As said over and over and over again in this thread, such authors/creators do exist, and we're not talking about creators turning a blind eye to fanfic or staying silent about it, but creators actively encouraging and supporting it.

[HarryT]

Perhaps spindlegirl can clarify whether or not that's the case here.

[Yapyap]

For anyone interested, either just out of curiosity or because they'd like to read or write fanfic without feeling like a horrible criminal and scum of the earth, this is a good list of authors' stance on fanfic (not exhaustive and covers mostly authors, not rights holders of films/TV shows, but it's a decent start and all quotes there are supported by references), with both pro-fanfic and anti-fanfic authors listed.

Of course with any individual creator, it's always an idea to do a Google search in addition anyway, especially if the quoted reference is many years old, as creators' attitudes and opinions can and do change over time; mostly it seems it's formerly anti-fanfic authors who have either become neutral or explicitly pro-fanfic over the years, but I'm sure it can also happen the other way around.

[Belfaborac]

I thought Michael Chabon (from your list) said it quite well:

"...[A]ll literature, highbrow or low, from the Aeneid onward, is fan fiction....Through parody and pastiche, allusion and homage, retelling and reimagining the stories that were told before us and that we have come of age loving--amateurs--we proceed, seeking out the blank places in the map that our favorite writers, in their greatness and negligence, have left for us, hoping to pass on to our own readers--should we be lucky enough to find any--some of the pleasure that we ourselves have taken in the stuff that we love: to get in on the game. All novels are sequels; influence is bliss."

[spindlegirl]

...................................

[spindlegirl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Is it right to encourage your daughter to commit copyright infringement? I'm sure you wouldn't encourage her to download pirated books or music, would you?

I originally wrote a long post defending my daughter. But my jaw is still hitting the floor as I sit here reading this.

Suffice it to say, that I wouldn't dare take advantage of a person with special-needs and encourage them to do illegal activities. Also, I have yet to meet a person on this earth who has the beautiful character she has. She has a heart of gold and a shining light to those around her.