Do you pirate books and why?

[Kajti]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

I would be very interested in finding out how many people do pirate books as opposed to how many purchase them.

For me the point of buying an ereader was that it meant I could stop paying for books, since huge numbers of books are easily found online. So compared to the dollar or three I paid for used paper books by mail, it paid for itself within a year (ereaders were more expensive back then). I've never paid for an ebook. Some of the books I've read on it were free giveaways, but the vast majority were pirated.

On the "if nobody paid, nobody would write," front, I doubt it. Even assuming that's true, all the stuff already online isn't going to vanish, so I could read a book a day (even sticking just to the types I like) and have reading material available for more decades that I have left to live.

[latepaul]

A number of my paperback books have this inside the front cover:

This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated without the publisher’s prior consent in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser.

which might at first glance look like it's a prohibition against lending (amongst other things), though I think what it's actually against is some sort of re-packaging of the physical book.

It's in a number of my older paperbacks, the latest I can find is a copy of The Thief of Time Discworld book from 2001.

Other books have a different disclaimer

No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means, without the prior permission in writing of the publisher, nor otherwise be circulated in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser.

The intent seems roughly the same however.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

What if someone's willing to do that work for free? Why should you have to pay for it?

Once I scan and convert a book, the work part is done. Why should everyone else who paid for a legit copy have to repeat my effort? That's just wasteful.

Whether I'm allowed to profit from the work is a different matter. But if I'm willing to work for free, why shouldn't I be allowed to share that effort?

If it's in the public domain, there's no problem. If it's copyrighted and you want to create an ebook and give it to the author, that's OK, too. But when you share it with others, that's taking something that doesn't belong to you (the right to copy a work) and giving it to others. It's kind of like taking a book from a bookstore to give to your friend.

[forcheville]

"And I never, pirate books!
"What, never?"
"No, never!"
"What, never?"
"Well, hardly ever!"

- apologies W.S. Gilbert

[Apache]

Originally Posted by Catlady

DVDs generally have a warning that public exhibition of the DVD is prohibited. Does that mean I can't invite my neighbors to watch?

It is prohibited if you are charging for them to view it.
Apache

[Apache]

Originally Posted by latepaul

A number of my paperback books have this inside the front cover:

Quote:
This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated without the publisher’s prior consent in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser.

which might at first glance look like it's a prohibition against lending (amongst other things), though I think what it's actually against is some sort of re-packaging of the physical book.

It's in a number of my older paperbacks, the latest I can find is a copy of The Thief of Time Discworld book from 2001.

Other books have a different disclaimer



The intent seems roughly the same however.[/QUOTE]
Bookstores can send the cover back of unsold paperback books and get a credit. They are supposed to destroy the book. Some stores have been known to sell the books without covers to used bookstores and flea markets.
Apache

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

If it's in the public domain, there's no problem. If it's copyrighted and you want to create an ebook and give it to the author, that's OK, too. But when you share it with others, that's taking something that doesn't belong to you (the right to copy a work) and giving it to others. It's kind of like taking a book from a bookstore to give to your friend.

No, if I take a book from a bookstore, the bookstore can't sell that book anymore. If I give a friend a digital copy of a book they already own in paper, the author's already been paid for that person's reading of the book.

They have the right to shift the format from print to digital themselves. The question is whether they have the right to have someone else do the shifting for them.

Copyright law decided that you can tape shows off the TV, and has never had a problem with "I asked my neighbor to tape my favorite show, since I was going to be at a birthday party that evening." Not even if the neighbor ran two VCRs at once on the same show, or taped the show for himself & ran off an extra copy.

And while a lot of people stopped home-taping when high-quality commercial copies became available, that hasn't worked for ebooks--in part because the commercial copies are often hack jobs.

I'm looking forward to the ebook piracy lawsuit in which the defendant says, "it's fair use; I'm not competing with the commercial ebook version because my free version is *better.* The publisher has refused to make a version that [transfers easily to multiple devices/has a working TOC/is proofread/includes the maps and other pictures], therefore this copy fills a niche the publisher has declined to exploit."

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Apache

It is prohibited if you are charging for them to view it.
Apache

I once watched a private projection of the fellowship of the ring in a parking lot that was open to the public. Someone at the front of the lot was selling candy lol.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Apache

It is prohibited if you are charging for them to view it.
Apache

No, the warning encompasses ANY unauthorized distribution or exhibition, even without monetary gain.

[Prestidigitweeze]

I, too, thought of the hard-copy-as-voucher option for publishers:-- a receipt or physical copy from a physical book = a voucher for all or part of the cost of the ebook edition.

I think that's likely to happen, but only in certain cases.

I can see a publisher looking at viable marketing strategies for a specific book and deciding to put out the physical copy first and the ebook eight months to a year later. I can also see their offering the digital copy as part of the incentive for buying the physical book: telling customers the ebook will be free at a later time with proof of purchase of the physical book. In that case, they've balanced the projected liabilities and market trajectory of a book and decided the resultant loss would be worth it.

But even if publishers were forced to be more fair about pricing and DRM, I doubt the voucher strategy would be implemented widely for this reason: Many who bought physical copies and knew they would receive ebook versions would keep their physical copies in mint or (if sealed in plastic) unopened condition. They would then resell them immediately at a discount and keep the proof of purchase. This puts publishers in the position of potentially selling half as many copies at launch as they might have without the deal. Overnight, launch copies would compete with as-new previously purchased copies at reduced prices.

Of course, publishers could demand that people send in the cover of the book, or tear out a page, as their proof of purchase, but then customers would be asked to damage the physical copies of the new books they've bought. Not the best marketing strategy in an age in which physical books are becoming the equivalent of vinyl LPs.

On the nether hind, if physical books stop selling at all but the commitment to publishing them remains, then half of a live market will beat one hundred percent of a dead one.

Two tangential questions:

1. If a publisher acquires the rights to a book under copyright and republishes it, do you still feel you're justified in acquiring a copy illegally if you've reimbursed the author and the first publisher but your downloaded version is copied from an edition put out by the second publisher?

2. If the pirating party from whom and/or owners of the site where you've downloaded an illegal copy are revealed to be involved in organized crime, and to profit from your link-clicking through advertising and traffic, would it prevent you from downloading a book to know that you might be a small part of financing activities that are more harmful than piracy?

I ask not to try to convince people to refrain from downloading pirated copies but because I'm curious whether the above conditions would make a difference to them.

[JoHunt]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It depends on your definition of piracy. I don't consider letting a friend read a book that I've greatly enjoyed when I've finished reading it 'piracy'.

This. It greatly annoys me that publishers decide which books I'm allowed to "lend".

[Sweetpea]

Only when the ebook is not available to me, due to a non-world-wide economy or stupidity of the author/publisher.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by Kajti

For me the point of buying an ereader was that it meant I could stop paying for books, since huge numbers of books are easily found online. So compared to the dollar or three I paid for used paper books by mail, it paid for itself within a year (ereaders were more expensive back then). I've never paid for an ebook. Some of the books I've read on it were free giveaways, but the vast majority were pirated.

On the "if nobody paid, nobody would write," front, I doubt it. Even assuming that's true, all the stuff already online isn't going to vanish, so I could read a book a day (even sticking just to the types I like) and have reading material available for more decades that I have left to live.

Neil Young has said that pirated mp3s on the internet are the new radio for music artists. Perhaps it is time for a new model for publishing - perhaps something like the blank digital media tax, only on ebook readers.

[The Terminator]

Originally Posted by Latinandgreek

Neil Young has said that pirated mp3s on the internet are the new radio for music artists. Perhaps it is time for a new model for publishing - perhaps something like the blank digital media tax, only on ebook readers.

Or a service like NetFlix for ebooks.

[StephenM]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

So, ultimately, I was only thinking of getting the book illegally because I didn't want to pay $16.99 for it.

I know what you mean. Personally, I have a big problem with going to Amazon to buy a newly released book, and discovering that the digital version is more expensive than the hardcover version, or only nominally cheaper. At that point, I will wait until the ebook price is much cheaper, or I will forgo it all together. On the other hand, there are several authors whose work I will purchase the moment it is released in the Kindle store, because the price is under $3. At that price point, I will not hesitate for a second to purchase a legal copy. Heck, at that price, I will even take a chance on a new author I have never heard of before, since this price is within the "impulse purchase" range.