Series, series and more damned series!

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Oh c'mon.... you don't see a distinction between Peter Pan, Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, Sookie Stackhouse and American Gods when compared to the likes of say; Huck Finn, Patterson's 'Alex Cross' novels, Blood Meridian, and Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels?

I think you guys are getting a bit too hung up on the literal definition of the term "speculation."

Or we just have a different point of view, maybe?

And for what it's worth, Peter Pan seems more likely to me than the one Alex Cross book I read.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

I didn't know what it meant. That's why I asked and I've looked it up in various places so I can try to see what kind of books you're seeing a problem with. Same reason I had to look up "Steampunk" recently because I wasn't sure exactly what that was.

So far, it seems to cover everything "Fiction" covers. So I don't see any difference between it and "Fiction" from what I've seen here so far.

I haven't see where the 'Fantastic' part comes in to separate those stories from others.

Well, let's take werewolves.

This book would probably be non-fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6672294-werewolves
This would be fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...wolves-zombies
This would be Spec-Fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...-international

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Well, let's take werewolves.

This book would probably be non-fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6672294-werewolves
This would be fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7...wolves-zombies
This would be Spec-Fiction: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6...-international

This post demonstrates why I mark ALL werewolf books "fiction" and move on with life. Because I cannot see a difference between these in terms of genre.

[ScalyFreak]

My main complaint about everything in my favorite genres (SciFi and fantasy) being a series is that unless all books have already been written, there is no telling how long it will take before the next book comes out. Typically, I find a good book, read it and love it, and then find out that it's the first in a series. At that point, I have to decide if I want to read the existing books and then sit on a cliff hanger for X number of decades and have to re-read the first ones when the next one finally comes out, or wait until the series is completed in X number of decades, and then re-read only the first one.

I remember the screams of agony that echoed across the internet when Robert Jordan died before finished The Wheel of Time. I didn't care for that series, so that didn't bother me very much, but I'd hate to be in that position with a series where i actually care about the plot and characters.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Oh c'mon.... you don't see a distinction between Peter Pan, Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, Sookie Stackhouse and American Gods when compared to the likes of say; Huck Finn, Patterson's 'Alex Cross' novels, Blood Meridian, and Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels?

I think you guys are getting a bit too hung up on the literal definition of the term "speculation."

Or we think it's redundant because the term "fantasy" already covers all your examples of "speculative"

[DiapDealer]

Or we think it's redundant because the term "fantasy" already covers all your examples of "speculative"

My fault obviously, for not including any scifi or horror.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Oh c'mon.... you don't see a distinction between Peter Pan, Lord of the Rings, Planet of the Apes, Sookie Stackhouse and American Gods when compared to the likes of say; Huck Finn, Patterson's 'Alex Cross' novels, Blood Meridian, and Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels?

No, not really. They're not textbooks, they're not "How to" books, they're not biographies. They're all made up characters, they're all "What if" stories created by the author.

And they already have their own genre's they seem to fit nicely in, if people want to get specific.

But backing up out of their specific genre's, they're all just "Fiction" to me. I don't see where "Speculative" adds anything to that.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I think you guys are getting a bit too hung up on the literal definition of the term "speculation."

Since I'm trying to figure out what it is you're complaining about, series wise, and didn't understand what part of your complaint was about, that you're seeing it in "Speculative" literature and the web definitions weren't helping, all I can do is ask.

If you'd said "I've seen it a lot in High Fantasy lately", or "Mysteries" or "Steampunk" or "Hard Scifi" I'd have seen what you were getting at. I'm just trying to figure out what you're looking at that you're seeing it as a huge problem.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

This post demonstrates why I mark ALL werewolf books "fiction" and move on with life. Because I cannot see a difference between these in terms of genre.

Well, one is non-fiction, It is a study of why humans create werewolves.

The 2nd one is a joke-like guide book to werewolves...something like you would use (if it was non-fiction) to study or prepare.

The 3rd one is an Urban Fantasy book


They are totally different to me...and would not be shelved together in my personal library.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

But backing up out of their specific genre's, they're all just "Fiction" to me. I don't see where "Speculative" adds anything to that.

Is the story set in the past, present or very near future, with no events that aren't a part of the known world? Then it's fiction.

Does the story's universe include things that are either currently unknown (e.g. new physics) or known to be unreal (e.g. magic). Then it's speculative fiction.

There is a blurring of the two when you get to alternate history. Because all fiction, in some manner, is alternate history - it tell of events that didn't actually happen. Generally, alternate history where the difference between the actual past and the fictional past is significantly different (e.g. Germany winning 2nd world war) is classed as speculative fiction.

Bridget Jone's Diary: Fiction
Pride and Prejudice with Zombies: Speculative fiction

Some people just don't like stories that aren't about 'the real world'. They don't like speculative fiction.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

No, not really. They're not textbooks, they're not "How to" books, they're not biographies. They're all made up characters, they're all "What if" stories created by the author.

And they already have their own genre's they seem to fit nicely in, if people want to get specific.

But backing up out of their specific genre's, they're all just "Fiction" to me. I don't see where "Speculative" adds anything to that.



Since I'm trying to figure out what it is you're complaining about, series wise, and didn't understand what part of your complaint was about, that you're seeing it in "Speculative" literature and the web definitions weren't helping, all I can do is ask.

If you'd said "I've seen it a lot in High Fantasy lately", or "Mysteries" or "Steampunk" or "Hard Scifi" I'd have seen what you were getting at. I'm just trying to figure out what you're looking at that you're seeing it as a huge problem.

I think where the confusion is coming in at is that as a whole "horror, fantasy, (paranormal) romance, high fantasy, etc" would fall UNDER Spec Fic. This covers everything that would be fantastic. You want zombie brain eaters? That's spec fic -->horror
Zombie Romance (A la Dearly, Departed) that's Spec fic --> Paranormal Romance
Shooting Zombies with Ak-47's in a city? Spec Fic -->Urban Fantasy

If you are just looking for fiction where the author made up a story then you could get The Lady and the Unicorn: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8...nd_the_Unicorn

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by DuskyRose

If you'd said "I've seen it a lot in High Fantasy lately", or "Mysteries" or "Steampunk" or "Hard Scifi" I'd have seen what you were getting at. I'm just trying to figure out what you're looking at that you're seeing it as a huge problem.

OK... perfect example. Thank you so much. I was referring to ALL those labels you just mentioned—with the exception of Mysteries.

I was simply trying to use an umbrella term that "encompassed" all of High Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, Urban Fantasy, Hard Scifi, Military Scifi, Space Opera, Steampunk, New Weird, Supernatural Romance, Magical Realism, Alternate History/Reality, Horror, Post-Apocalyptic and the like.

Speculative Fiction just seemed a lot quicker and easier to me than typing all that. And most people I interact with are familiar with the term. Sorry for assuming it was universally understood.

Give me a suitable label that encompasses all of those (^^) labels and I'll happily use it in the discussion from now on. As long as it's a little finer-grained than "fiction"—since I clearly don't mean ALL fiction. I mean High Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, Urban Fantasy, Hard Scifi, Military Scifi, Space Opera, Steampunk, New Weird, Supernatural Romance, Magical Realism, Alternate History/Reality, Horror, Post-Apocalyptic and a few more I can't remember right now.

[DuskyRose]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

OK... perfect example. Thank you so much. I was referring to ALL those labels you just mentioned—with the exception of Mysteries.

Thanks for the response. I'm still trying to let it 'jell' to see how it fits together, since I'd never seen it used before.

(Or never cared how it was used, so never looked it up before.)

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

This post demonstrates why I mark ALL werewolf books "fiction" and move on with life. Because I cannot see a difference between these in terms of genre.

you've been chasing butterflies too much, it seems.

[afa]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Is the story set in the past, present or very near future, with no events that aren't a part of the known world? Then it's fiction.

Does the story's universe include things that are either currently unknown (e.g. new physics) or known to be unreal (e.g. magic). Then it's speculative fiction.

This.

To DuskyRose and Ana - Even more than the Wiki definition, I think Paul's laymanised description is the easiest way to understand what encompasses "Speculative ficiton" and, more importantly, what distinguishes it from 'just fiction'.

Thanks, Paul. A simple description to get across what DD and I were too full of words to describe. (Is it because we read too much speculative fiction??)

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Well, one is non-fiction, It is a study of why humans create werewolves.

The 2nd one is a joke-like guide book to werewolves...something like you would use (if it was non-fiction) to study or prepare.

The 3rd one is an Urban Fantasy book

They are totally different to me...and would not be shelved together in my personal library.

Ah, I see what you mean. In that case, they would be on different shelves in my library as well: mythology (where I currently have a nice book on the history of vampires), humor, and fantasy. I wasn't quite getting that from the GR descriptions.