DRM Handcuffs

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I've spent a heck of a lot more than $3000 on eBooks - probably at least 5x that. But, unlike some, I don't consider it to be an "investment". That, to me, means something that will increase in value, and which I could subsequently sell and make a profit. For me, books are entertainment, and I'm willing to spend money to entertain myself, but I don't kid myself that I'm "investing" that money. I'll never get it back again.

True....but how much would you pay to repurchase the same books for a different reader after your current reader dies? That "extra cost" (which, in essence, you paid if you were switching from p-book to e-book for the same title) is an "investment" of your money, in the sense that it could be utilized in other manners (either investment or other forms of entertainment.)

I have spent nearly $10,000 (USD) on CD's, and I keep WAV backups of them in an off site storage location. Why? So that I won't have to spend that money over again in case of physical catastrophy.

Isn't not having to spend money over and over not an "investment". (In tax circles, it's called imputed income.)

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

True....but how much would you pay to repurchase the same books for a different reader after your current reader dies?

I wouldn't, because I remove the DRM from every book which I buy as soon as I buy it. This is not a crime in the UK.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I wouldn't, because I remove the DRM from every book which I buy as soon as I buy it. This is not a crime in the UK.

Is is of questionable legality on this side of the Pond. However, backing up non ecrypted data is legal here...

In the fullness of time, your data is worth far more that the equiptment that you use to play it back on...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

In the fullness of time, your data is worth far more that the equiptment that you use to play it back on...

Absolutely. Which is why I have all my eBooks backed up in at least 4 different places, not all in the same physical location. My eBook collection is without a doubt my most valued possession.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Absolutely. Which is why I have all my eBooks backed up in at least 4 different places, not all in the same physical location. My eBook collection is without a doubt my most valued possession.

So do I, inculding a copy 300 miles away...

[DiapDealer]

So do I, inculding a copy 300 miles away...

I see a story there. A post-apocalyptic, road-warrior bibliophile and his odyssey to make it to his ebook stash 300 miles away. Epic.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I wouldn't, because I remove the DRM from every book which I buy as soon as I buy it. This is not a crime in the UK.

He's right you know. I had thought that it was technically illegal under the Copyright, designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended by the 2003 regulations.

But it turns out I'd mis-remembered. It's only an offence to distribute the de-drm software, and then only if imported (other than for private use) or distributed in the course of a business, or distributed in any way to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the copyright owner.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I see a story there. A post-apocalyptic, road-warrior bibliophile and his odyssey to make it to his ebook stash 300 miles away. Epic.

and it should be called "The Road to Literacy"

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I see a story there. A post-apocalyptic, road-warrior bibliophile and his odyssey to make it to his ebook stash 300 miles away. Epic.

Starring Red...vs. the horde of illiterate politicians...

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I cannot help but wonder where DRM has stopped anyone from reading. The entitlement to copy and/or redistribute a pbook has never been a hot issue.

When a book was purchased but not immediately read, and the server closed down before the book was read. Also, when one wants to re-read an ebook bought 8 years ago... but the server is no longer active, and it can't be validated on a new computer.

People whose Amazon accounts are shut off also lose access to whichever of their purchased books they don't currently have loaded on their devices. And when a book is pulled from a store, it often can't be validated on a new device later. DRM limits reading to "as long as we care to allow it, or only on the specific device you authorized & loaded the book to."

I have never bought a book where the main purpose was to be able to lend it or resell it. I have done both, but I bought it because I wanted to read the book.

I've bought several. I'm a tabletop RPG player; many gaming groups have a habit of sharing the cost of the reference books throughout the group. I've also bought religious books with the main purpose of being able to lend them around when I'm done reading them.

Copying an ebook is usually violating the contract under which it was sold. Whining about doing this the hard way is like robbers snivelling that they have to go a bank or convenience store and show them a gun.

It's only a "contract" if the terms are negotiable. Copying an ebook may be a violation of the sales terms, but that only matters if the sales terms are legally valid. A bookstore that has a clause in its sales that say "we reserve the right to change these terms at any time," and then changes them to say "all previous buyers of ebooks will be charged an extra $20 at the beginning of each month" would quickly discover that they can't, in fact, enforce whatever terms they want.

Setting terms that say "you may not allow your spouse or child to read this book on the household computer" would also be unenforceable, and laughed out of court. However, Fictionwise's terms include that--they don't allow or "distribution" of the work "by any means." Also, they don't indicate which books are in the public domain, and aren't subject to copyright law.

With such kinds of ridiculous statements in their standard terms, it's no wonder people strip the DRM... the TOUs tend to go far beyond what copyright law allows, but claim to be based on copyright.

Cracking DRM for personal use doesn't violate copyright law. Whether it violates a TOU would require a team of IP and contract lawyers to sort out; the fact that stores obviously don't *want* people to evade the restrictions they place on ebooks has no legal bearing.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I've bought several. I'm a tabletop RPG player; many gaming groups have a habit of sharing the cost of the reference books throughout the group. I've also bought religious books with the main purpose of being able to lend them around when I'm done reading them.

If that means making multiple copies of the book, that's a plain breach of copyright. It's a very different matter to lend a single physical book to someone, and to make multiple copies of an eBook. In the latter case, you've created multiple copies where previously only one existed, and that's a copyright violation.

[KarenH]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

True....but how much would you pay to repurchase the same books for a different reader after your current reader dies?

And it doesn't even require the death of the reader. My first reader supported Mobipocket DRM when I bought it. I happily purchased books way faster than I could read them, until I had something like 200 DRMed titles (some that I had read, but many that I hadn't). Suddenly, I get the "good" news that my reader would support ePUB DRM instead of Mobipocket DRM as soon as I downloaded and installed the new firmware. This would mean all the books I'd previously purchased would no longer work on my reader. Granted, I did have the choice of not upgrading the firmware, but then I have the potential problems of lack of support and no access to other improvements to the reader. Not to mention the fact that the original Mobipocket DRM was getting harder and harder to find. So, I was left with three choices - 1. Stay with the existing firmware and lose access to customer support for my reader, and have drastically reduced selection of books available to me, 2. Upgrade the firmware and lose access to over 200 books that I had purchased, many of which I hadn't even read yet, or 3. Find a way to merge options 1 and 2 and get the best parts of both.

Fortunately I was able to figure out how to liberate my existing Mobi titles (it was a lot harder then than it is now!) and didn't lose any. I did learn a valuable lesson though, and now every title I purchase is immediately stripped, just to prevent this type of situation from happening again - and since I have now moved on to a Kindle, it would have happened again if I hadn't removed the DRM from all those purchases.

I would never support or encourage piracy or sharing/distributing ebooks illegally, but I strongly encourage everyone I know who purchases ebooks to remove the DRM as soon as possible.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by HarryT

If that means making multiple copies of the book, that's a plain breach of copyright. It's a very different matter to lend a single physical book to someone, and to make multiple copies of an eBook. In the latter case, you've created multiple copies where previously only one existed, and that's a copyright violation.

I was referring to paper books. I've bought ebook PDFs with the intent of printing a single copy and sharing that; I haven't bought ebooks with the intent of handing out digital copies or running off multiple prints, except where that's specifically permitted. (A handful of indie gaming authors have the mindset of, "if you bought it, we want you to play it with your group. If that means printing 3 copies in order to get them interested, go for it!")

[afa]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

So do I, inculding a copy 300 miles away...

Wow. Now that is cautious.


Tell me - when you go to retrieve these ebooks... is a secret handshake involved?

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I wouldn't, because I remove the DRM from every book which I buy as soon as I buy it. This is not a crime in the UK.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

He's right you know. I had thought that it was technically illegal under the Copyright, designs and Patents Act 1988, as amended by the 2003 regulations.

But it turns out I'd mis-remembered. It's only an offence to distribute the de-drm software, and then only if imported (other than for private use) or distributed in the course of a business, or distributed in any way to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the copyright owner.

Just a thought, but would this be illegal due to it involving making a copy of the file? In the UK it's still illegal to format-shift, after all. Removing DRM involves making a copy of the original, so wouldn't that make it illegal?