Bloomberg:HP to spin off PC Business - Page 10

RockdaMan · 08-22-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afa

If we're talking build quality, I would certainly have to say yes. I've had an iMac for going on three years now...

FANBOY!

Just kidding and having some fun

GreenMonkey · 08-23-2011, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afa

Why else, then, would Coke and Pepsi still spend millions and millions of dollars every year on marketing? Is there anyone in the world who isn't 'aware' of these brands? I agree that plenty of people (like you and me) would not really be swayed by a smooth ad or three, or by a nifty promotional campaign, even; but I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be.

Because it works...it teaches your brain over the years that you like their brand better.

(study on influence of knowing the brand of Coke and Pepsi on your brain...including getting people to flip-flop their preference):

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/heal.../hb041025b.htm

afa · 08-23-2011, 07:03 AM

Nice one.

jocampo · 08-23-2011, 09:31 AM

Besides what GreenMonkey said, I would like to add this link:

Influence: Science and Practice (5th Edition)

It's a fantastic book about Influence and its role on today's and past marketing campaigns. It basically explains why X product can sell much more than Y, even though Y es technically better or equal than X.

We are being flooded with all these techniques daily. PCs, tablets and ereaders are not the exception.

afa · 08-29-2011, 03:31 AM

A pretty scathing article in the Wall Street Journal on HP's blunders.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...589514334.html

Looking at them all in one place, you can't help but feel that HP's problem is simply that they are a very poorly run company, particularly under the new dumbo CEO.

cfrizz · 08-29-2011, 10:29 AM

OUCH! That's going to leave a mark!

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

Yes or no?: Apple sells high quality PC systems.

NO. They sell LOW quality, low QUALITY, unreliable hardware which is even more unreliable as it is more expensive to service those ultra sealed super proprietary devices (including computers) out of warranty.

They make NICE LOOKING computers...of low quality and difficult upgradeability, compared to others. Others now all make nice looking computers too.

What they do well, is make incredibly dumb tv spots for incredibly dumb consumers who like to be sold objects that the hustler is calling "magical and magically easy".

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 01:15 AM

That's not to say that you are likely to get a lemon with apple. Just that you are more likely than with others. But most computers today are just fine.

A short sighted decision by HP based on business school obsessions with metrics rather than vision.
One thing that set apple apart is that they periodically tried to push the envelope of technology (iphone) and get people to buy something that they invented (original mac, newton) or that others weren't selling well (mp3 players).

HP, like the others, follows trends instead of leading. No company except apple has come out with a new idea in the last several years. The copycat business school lack of creativity in corporatism, as far as consumer products, is depressing. Copy, copy, copy. Lemmings.

HP sometimes tries some new gadget in the business / corporate segment but never in the consumer. Their consumer gadgets (like portable media drives) are all gearhead business oriented in spirit and only appeal to IT guys and power users, not point and click consumers.

A bad economy, where HP isn't selling fashion items but standard appliances (you buy an HP pc because you need one or just want to upgrade without spending too much), is not a good dataset to judge the viability of a business. Unless HP believes the recession will continue to affect their business because the recession will continue.
That HP is so quickly selling off their palm webos acquisition and work, is just a return to roots: back to boring corporate "seriousness" because getting in touch with the "fun" of consumerism scares them. Yes, these MBAs are indeed thaaaaat booooring.
Apple sells fashion items for fashion victims. So long as that minority has the money, they'll buy, in boomtime and recession.

HP marketing of their tablet has been non existent while they've continued to push the laptops. So it isn't merely low sales that drive this decision. It's as if they didn't want the sales. Sometimes business decisions reflect less on economic calculations and more on the personal interests of the man in charge.

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 01:35 AM

It's amazing who has to be in charge now. Because, although not "exciting", hp really built up a reliable business with excellent service when something goes wrong.
So apparently, they want to compete with facebook for corporations and they want to make corporate server hardware and sell printers and scanners without selling computers. So...this is a totally business oriented business, if this goes through. But businesses aren't fashion victims, they buy the best for the cheapest.
Nobody but businesses are going to want to buy scanners (except the weirdos here who cut the spine from their books to digitize them). Printer sales will be less credible to consumers when you're just another name on the shelf, not part of their PC family.
Maybe my assumptions are all screwed up, but it seems like HP is going from a low margin to an even lower margin.

IBM got out of the PC business because they were seriously trailing in everything, despite offering a solid product and business class service to consumers, who just wanted "Fun" computers, in a booming economy. IBM was not going to grow in PC's without serious marketing and R&D. This is not at all the same for HP.

It's only unsettling because we've been so brainwashed to revere big corporations, we kind of can't really believe that they could be run by incompetents, ever.

afa · 08-30-2011, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by readingglasses

NO. They sell LOW quality, low QUALITY, unreliable hardware which is even more unreliable as it is more expensive to service those ultra sealed super proprietary devices (including computers) out of warranty.

You know, I was gonna write something more diplomatic, but since you clearly have a penchant for grand, sweeping statements that are utterly baseless, I'm gonna be blunt.

The above quote is bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. Bullshit written by someone who has convinced himself that he knows more than everyone else. God knows there are plenty of things about Apple that one could criticize, but the claim that their products are low build quality or unreliable is -- again -- bullshit.

Who knows why we ever bother with critical reviews of products from technology journalists at CNet, Engadget, Wired, etc. Clearly those guys know nothing. If some random dude on a forum says they're low quality, then it must be true. I mean, he used CAPS and everything! Of course he's right!

Quote:

They make NICE LOOKING computers...of low quality and difficult upgradeability, compared to others.

Bullshit.

Quote:

What they do well, is make incredibly dumb tv spots for incredibly dumb consumers who like to be sold objects that the hustler is calling "magical and magically easy".

Of course they do. Because everyone that enjoys products other than your own personal favourites is a "dumb consumer". Dismissive and condescending statements about millions of people one has never met is definitely the way to go. Never gets old.

Notice to all MobileRead members: Please keep in mind that readinglasses is the only intelligent and aware consumer in the world. From now on, all advice and discussion related to which tech products one should or should not purchase should be routed through him. Thank you for your attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by readingglasses

That's not to say that you are likely to get a lemon with apple. Just that you are more likely than with others.

Again - bullshit.

It is at this point that I'm guessing you're gonna feed us some cock-and-bull story about how you/your friend/roommate/neighbour's brother-in-law's pet dog had Apple Device X that gave him/her problems to no end, and it broke apart after 17 minutes, and the Customer Support wouldn't help, and he wasted his hard-earned money, and yada yada yada.

Let me go ahead and make a pre-emptive objection: bullshit.

JD Gumby · 08-30-2011, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by readingglasses

NO. They sell LOW quality, low QUALITY, unreliable hardware which is even more unreliable as it is more expensive to service those ultra sealed super proprietary devices (including computers) out of warranty.

They make NICE LOOKING computers...of low quality and difficult upgradeability, compared to others. Others now all make nice looking computers too.

Nah. Apple makes fairly high-quality wares (with a few exceptions, such as the grip of death on one of the iPhone models [iP4?]). However, the build quality comes at a price that is rarely in line with the hardware's usually low specs compared to similar hardware from other companies around the same time.

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 03:57 AM

Too true, sir! And ably put.

Good to see you don't just accept opinion as fact. Though you seem to be looking to do so and just couldn't go that far with my pompous gas baggery.

That makes me suspect you are an apple fan, and your defense of apple as a company that makes ugly hardware that is easily upgradeable and great on spec is a little baffling, given their marketing focuses on easy usage, beautiful design and the word "magical" (correct me if I'm wrong there).

I concede that their hardware may be perfectly on par and even superior. I don't even have an anecdote. I was just going by an inquirer (the tech site, not the tabloid) report that put apple, sony and dell as more likely to break in some way or other than asus and hp. Maybe the study was bunk, of course.

But as far as apple users go...I don't really know if "dumb" is over the top. It might be for sensitive people who think "dumb/stupid" is a bad word.
The apple users I've known aren't dumb as people, they just don't know anything about computers. There are plenty of programmers who know everything using apple, too. So maybe that balances out and they're no different from anyone else.
I'm glad this was important enough to clear up.

As to your pre-emptive objection...I don't know what to say, except that I suppose you believe that apple really is bad and I'm wrong to retract yet people who buy it are computer savvy in doing so.
I'm curious, why is it that computer savvy people would buy computers that regularly break down? Maybe the upgradeability is so easy, that they upgrade to the max for the short life of the computer.

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 04:11 AM

One thing I forgot. Apple makes great workstations.
The mac pro is as easily upgradeable as an HP desktop (sleds for its drives, multiple empty slots, spacious for heat dissipation) and has a better CPU than any consumer desktop. But the price is a little out of this world for a desktop, so naturally it would have a server CPU.

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afa

Of course they do. Because everyone that enjoys products other than your own personal favourites is a "dumb consumer". Dismissive and condescending statements about millions of people one has never met is definitely the way to go. Never gets old.

Well, obviously!

readingglasses · 08-30-2011, 04:15 AM

I'm not sure where you're coming from, though. What could you possibly care so much if someone is bashing apple products somewhere?
Apple is doing great business now and no amount of criticism, by itself, will ever harm that. So if you like apple, just enjoy it, critics are no threat to your products' availability.

It obviously won't end up the way HP is, flushing itself down the toilet.

08-30-2011, 01:15 AM	#143
readingglasses Zealot Posts: 124 Karma: 9252 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: (prospective) kobo touch	That's not to say that you are likely to get a lemon with apple. Just that you are more likely than with others. But most computers today are just fine. A short sighted decision by HP based on business school obsessions with metrics rather than vision. One thing that set apple apart is that they periodically tried to push the envelope of technology (iphone) and get people to buy something that they invented (original mac, newton) or that others weren't selling well (mp3 players). HP, like the others, follows trends instead of leading. No company except apple has come out with a new idea in the last several years. The copycat business school lack of creativity in corporatism, as far as consumer products, is depressing. Copy, copy, copy. Lemmings. HP sometimes tries some new gadget in the business / corporate segment but never in the consumer. Their consumer gadgets (like portable media drives) are all gearhead business oriented in spirit and only appeal to IT guys and power users, not point and click consumers. A bad economy, where HP isn't selling fashion items but standard appliances (you buy an HP pc because you need one or just want to upgrade without spending too much), is not a good dataset to judge the viability of a business. Unless HP believes the recession will continue to affect their business because the recession will continue. That HP is so quickly selling off their palm webos acquisition and work, is just a return to roots: back to boring corporate "seriousness" because getting in touch with the "fun" of consumerism scares them. Yes, these MBAs are indeed thaaaaat booooring. Apple sells fashion items for fashion victims. So long as that minority has the money, they'll buy, in boomtime and recession. HP marketing of their tablet has been non existent while they've continued to push the laptops. So it isn't merely low sales that drive this decision. It's as if they didn't want the sales. Sometimes business decisions reflect less on economic calculations and more on the personal interests of the man in charge. Last edited by readingglasses; 08-30-2011 at 01:24 AM.

08-30-2011, 03:57 AM	#147
readingglasses Zealot Posts: 124 Karma: 9252 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: (prospective) kobo touch	Too true, sir! And ably put. Good to see you don't just accept opinion as fact. Though you seem to be looking to do so and just couldn't go that far with my pompous gas baggery. That makes me suspect you are an apple fan, and your defense of apple as a company that makes ugly hardware that is easily upgradeable and great on spec is a little baffling, given their marketing focuses on easy usage, beautiful design and the word "magical" (correct me if I'm wrong there). I concede that their hardware may be perfectly on par and even superior. I don't even have an anecdote. I was just going by an inquirer (the tech site, not the tabloid) report that put apple, sony and dell as more likely to break in some way or other than asus and hp. Maybe the study was bunk, of course. But as far as apple users go...I don't really know if "dumb" is over the top. It might be for sensitive people who think "dumb/stupid" is a bad word. The apple users I've known aren't dumb as people, they just don't know anything about computers. There are plenty of programmers who know everything using apple, too. So maybe that balances out and they're no different from anyone else. I'm glad this was important enough to clear up. As to your pre-emptive objection...I don't know what to say, except that I suppose you believe that apple really is bad and I'm wrong to retract yet people who buy it are computer savvy in doing so. I'm curious, why is it that computer savvy people would buy computers that regularly break down? Maybe the upgradeability is so easy, that they upgrade to the max for the short life of the computer. Last edited by readingglasses; 08-30-2011 at 04:08 AM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Free book (nook/Kindle) - Your Brain and Business [Business Science Self-Help]	ATDrake	Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links)	7	02-20-2012 06:40 PM
Free book (nook/Kindle) - Ubiquitous Computing for Business [Business Self-Help]	ATDrake	Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links)	3	11-21-2011 06:23 PM
Free book (nook/Kindle) - The Truth About Starting a Business [Business Self-Help]	ATDrake	Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links)	3	10-10-2011 02:17 PM
TV Show Spin-offs	Nate the great	Lounge	11	10-28-2008 05:17 PM
ipdf goes into a spin	jontom	iRex	0	05-07-2008 06:44 AM

08-23-2011, 07:03 AM	#138
afa The Forgotten Posts: 1,136 Karma: 4689999 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dubai Device: Kindle Paperwhite; Nook HD; Sony Xperia Z3 Compact	Nice one.

08-23-2011, 09:31 AM	#139
jocampo Layback feline Posts: 3,034 Karma: 6980745 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: USA Device: Oasis 2nd gen, Sony DPTS1, iPad Pro 10.5"	Besides what GreenMonkey said, I would like to add this link: Influence: Science and Practice (5th Edition) It's a fantastic book about Influence and its role on today's and past marketing campaigns. It basically explains why X product can sell much more than Y, even though Y es technically better or equal than X. We are being flooded with all these techniques daily. PCs, tablets and ereaders are not the exception.

08-29-2011, 03:31 AM	#140
afa The Forgotten Posts: 1,136 Karma: 4689999 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dubai Device: Kindle Paperwhite; Nook HD; Sony Xperia Z3 Compact	A pretty scathing article in the Wall Street Journal on HP's blunders. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...589514334.html Looking at them all in one place, you can't help but feel that HP's problem is simply that they are a very poorly run company, particularly under the new dumbo CEO.

08-29-2011, 10:29 AM	#141
cfrizz Wizard Posts: 1,566 Karma: 36389706 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Quincy, MA Device: Samsung 54A, Kobo Libra H2O, Samsung S6 Lite	OUCH! That's going to leave a mark!

08-30-2011, 01:35 AM	#144
readingglasses Zealot Posts: 124 Karma: 9252 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: (prospective) kobo touch	It's amazing who has to be in charge now. Because, although not "exciting", hp really built up a reliable business with excellent service when something goes wrong. So apparently, they want to compete with facebook for corporations and they want to make corporate server hardware and sell printers and scanners without selling computers. So...this is a totally business oriented business, if this goes through. But businesses aren't fashion victims, they buy the best for the cheapest. Nobody but businesses are going to want to buy scanners (except the weirdos here who cut the spine from their books to digitize them). Printer sales will be less credible to consumers when you're just another name on the shelf, not part of their PC family. Maybe my assumptions are all screwed up, but it seems like HP is going from a low margin to an even lower margin. IBM got out of the PC business because they were seriously trailing in everything, despite offering a solid product and business class service to consumers, who just wanted "Fun" computers, in a booming economy. IBM was not going to grow in PC's without serious marketing and R&D. This is not at all the same for HP. It's only unsettling because we've been so brainwashed to revere big corporations, we kind of can't really believe that they could be run by incompetents, ever.

08-30-2011, 04:11 AM	#148
readingglasses Zealot Posts: 124 Karma: 9252 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: (prospective) kobo touch	One thing I forgot. Apple makes great workstations. The mac pro is as easily upgradeable as an HP desktop (sleds for its drives, multiple empty slots, spacious for heat dissipation) and has a better CPU than any consumer desktop. But the price is a little out of this world for a desktop, so naturally it would have a server CPU.

08-30-2011, 04:15 AM	#150
readingglasses Zealot Posts: 124 Karma: 9252 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: (prospective) kobo touch	I'm not sure where you're coming from, though. What could you possibly care so much if someone is bashing apple products somewhere? Apple is doing great business now and no amount of criticism, by itself, will ever harm that. So if you like apple, just enjoy it, critics are no threat to your products' availability. It obviously won't end up the way HP is, flushing itself down the toilet.

Advert

Advert