This is probably the reason why there are so few readers out there

[taustin]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Eugenics is abhorrent. Basing reproduction on some genetic or biological misunderstanding a) is a bad idea on moral grounds, and b) wouldn't work. What I'm talking about is very different.

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if you had to have some basic clue about parenting before you became a parent. I mean, you need a license to drive a moped but not to raise a child? Which one sounds more potentially dangerous to you?

Drivers' licenses are already used for "social engineering" purposes, which is to say, to screw with people the licensing authority doesn't like. Parenting licesenses sound like a great idea until you realize it will be someone else who decides who is qualified and who isn't, and they will decide whether you are qualified or not.

Do you really truth your current government to make that decision for you?

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by taustin

Drivers' licenses are already used for "social engineering" purposes, which is to say, to screw with people the licensing authority doesn't like.

Do you really believe that? Do you think there's no good purpose to making sure people have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to drive a vehicle before we let them drive 65 MPH on the highway? I don't think so. A driver's license is supposed to (and I say "supposed to" because people don't get retested) ensure that you at least know the fundamentals of driving before you get behind the wheel. It's also useful to track people's infractions so that someone whose driving privileges have been revoked doesn't continue to drive (at least, in theory).

Originally Posted by taustin

Parenting licesenses sound like a great idea until you realize it will be someone else who decides who is qualified and who isn't, and they will decide whether you are qualified or not.

The training that such a license would require isn't unprecedented. Parents are sometimes required to take classes to regain custody of their children, for example. All I'm talking about is a requirement for parents to show some competence beforehand, rather than after they've already screwed up.

Originally Posted by taustin

Do you really truth your current government to make that decision for you?

I would trust the government with that just as much as I'd trust them with any other kind of government-mandated training (which includes public education). And I'd certainly trust the government more to set minimum standards than I would trust the average 18-year old to come up with them on their own. How much of a burden do you think it would be on the average citizen? You can probably answer that by asking how many people fail their written driving tests and as a result, never get licenses. Don't you think parents should go through at least that much training?

[taustin]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Do you really believe that? Do you think there's no good purpose to making sure people have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how to drive a vehicle before we let them drive 65 MPH on the highway?

I'm not talking about testing for ability to drive safely. I'm talking about revoking drivers licenses for reasons completely unrelated to driving ability, like not paying child support. Not paying child support makes you a deadbeat, certainly, but it doesn't make you a bad driver. And that is law already in many states.

It is foolish to believe that a parenting license would be handled any other way. Believe in the wrong (which is to say, someone else's) diety? Or no diety? Then you're not qualified to be a parent. Or, to put this in a more current events context, do you not believe in global warming? Then you're not qualified to raise a child. Are you overweight (by standards that mean you will have a lower life expentency if you are within the "normal" range)? Then you're not qualified to raise a child.

Do you really believe it wouldn't happen? It is already happening with other forms of licensing.

[LaurieGator]

and no comments about the Barbie doll that said "Math is hard..."

I have been reading as long as I can remember. I used to steal some of my mom's paperback books out of the closet when I was a pre-teen. (Mom read good stuff back then like Stephen King and The Exorcist). We actually have a friend who teases us about our reading and tells us "reading will give you brain cancer". We laugh about it with him and then read some more. His experience comes from not learning to read well because of undiagnosed learning disabilities, even though he is really really smart!

I would love to see this girl rebel against mom by not wearing makeup, getting glasses just so she can look geeky and READING LOTS OF BOOKS! Yup, that is the type of rebelling that I love :-)

[Wordeater]

I was staying with a friend once, whose 8 y.o. son was reading well below where he ought to have been for his age.
They were having him read for 20 minutes a day in their presence. The kid fought them all the way around it. Their reason for 'forcing' him to read, was that it was important for him to improve in order to get better grades.
I explained to their son that improving his reading would allow him to read material that he WANTED to read. To this point, reading had simply been a chore for him. He couldn't even imagine that someone would read 'cause they wanted to!

It will be no surprise to you that the mother and father read less than maybe a couple of books a year, between them. They just don't get it.
If I couldn't read, you might just as well shoot me.
Growing up, we went to our Public Library every Friday night. I mean, reading was a given, still is.
When my dad passed away at 86, I had to return some books he was into to the library.

WE

[Gwen Morse]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

vacuuming I get, not sweeping. I need two hands for that

You can kind of wrap your arm around the handle of the broom and sweep, one-handed. I did that.

Also, I washed dishes while reading. Used one hand to do the dishes, one to hold the book. I can turn pages with the thumb of the hand holding the book.

[Gwen Morse]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Eugenics is abhorrent. Basing reproduction on some genetic or biological misunderstanding a) is a bad idea on moral grounds, and b) wouldn't work. What I'm talking about is very different.

All I'm saying is that it would be nice if you had to have some basic clue about parenting before you became a parent. I mean, you need a license to drive a moped but not to raise a child? Which one sounds more potentially dangerous to you?

Maybe instead of saying you want a license in order to have kids...you might suggest mandatory parenting classes. Maybe while the female half is pregnant, or maybe earlier (in school)?

I _think_ what you're saying is you want some social effort to prepare parents, rather than limiting the breeding population?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Gwen Morse

You can kind of wrap your arm around the handle of the broom and sweep, one-handed. I did that.

Also, I washed dishes while reading. Used one hand to do the dishes, one to hold the book. I can turn pages with the thumb of the hand holding the book.

I'd rather just do it quickly and efficiently and get on about my reading. I am also one of the "reads toilet paper packages, dog food bags, cleanser bottles" and so on... but there are limits... standing in line, sure. doing a half assed job that I know needs to be done, nah, just get it out of the way and have more quality reading time

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Gwen Morse

Maybe instead of saying you want a license in order to have kids...you might suggest mandatory parenting classes. Maybe while the female half is pregnant, or maybe earlier (in school)?

I _think_ what you're saying is you want some social effort to prepare parents, rather than limiting the breeding population?

I would agree with this. We require training to do everything else in our world with the exception of rasing a child. What makes our children less important than learning to drive?

[PitterPat]

My grandmother was born in 1896. She was a school teacher for a few years before marrying in 1918. She lived to be 87 years old. She did not read for pleasure! So this isn't a new thing that people don't read much. For one thing she always lived on a farm and there were always chores to be done so reading was "lazy". She did read for information and to study the Bible.

I was a teenager when my dad moved my grandparents into our home in 1981. My grandmother looked at all the books in the living room and asked why we had so many books. Also, she wanted to know if we had read them all. It just amazed her that we sat around and read books. Yet I wouldn't classify my parents as avid readers at the time.

My other grandmother was not as well educated but read like crazy. She lived to be 92 and up until the last few months would sit and read for hours on end. She would read anything and everything.

We were given books as small children. I can remember pretending to read from my books before I actually learned to read. I spent most of my allowance on Scholastic book orders. I remember going to the library on grocery shopping day with my mother. I didn't read much for pleasure as a teen and young adult but in my mid-30's went back to reading books.

My son was read to from the day he came home from the hospital. He always loved his books. He is now 19 and too busy hanging out with friends to read. In school he always read way above his grade level even though his grades didn't show it. He hated the Accelerated Reader program and avoided it. The questions they asked were pointless to him.

I remember his first grade teacher telling me that he wasn't doing well in class, including in his reading. Just the week before they had gotten their first big hardback reading book full of stories. It was brand new. I asked her how long was she spending on each story. She said "a week per story". Okay, fine. He had read all 8 stories the first night! I know he read them because he read them out loud. He was bored and ready for new stories! At bedtime he was allowed to take a book to bed. I would often find him later sound asleep still holding on to his book.

Oh, there was also the daycare teacher who didn't want him to have a book at the table while waiting for breakfast. The kids could have a toy but not a book at the table. I could understand if there was food there but this was 20 minutes before breakfast would be served!

My sister's daughter and 15 month old grandson live in her house. I just sent the little boy some board books. Everyone was thrilled! They said he already loves his books and these would hold up a little better than the regular books with paper pages since he hasn't learned to carefully turn a paper page.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Gwen Morse

Maybe instead of saying you want a license in order to have kids...you might suggest mandatory parenting classes. Maybe while the female half is pregnant, or maybe earlier (in school)?

I _think_ what you're saying is you want some social effort to prepare parents, rather than limiting the breeding population?

Classes would be fine, I think. My only concern there would be what would be the consequences for failing the classes? At a minimum, you should have to retake the course until you passed, but if you wait until the woman is pregnant, the clock is already ticking, so to speak.

[boxcorner]

PitterPat - Thanks for sharing your memories and welcome to MobileRead.

[Freeshadow]

either pass parenting or had kids to be taken into custody - simple enough

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow

either pass parenting or had kids to be taken into custody - simple enough

I could slightly agree with that. My husband runs a tax/accounting business, but before that he worked seasonally with HR Block. He witnessed parents telling their children:

• that it was stupid to read
• that they [the child] better get what they wanted out of school [now] before they [had to] drop out at [insert age here] so that the parent can get money from the government for them

He even saw a parent force her son to pretend that he was mentally challenged (there is some state/federal dollars in that, too). He told me his heart was breaking as he watched this parent tell her son that "there was no way he could go back to [high] school next year, because they would cut his disability check."

Yeah, people should be forced to take some type of parenting class.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Gwen Morse

You can kind of wrap your arm around the handle of the broom and sweep, one-handed. I did that.

Also, I washed dishes while reading. Used one hand to do the dishes, one to hold the book. I can turn pages with the thumb of the hand holding the book.

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I could slightly agree with that. My husband runs a tax/accounting business, but before that he worked seasonally with HR Block. He witnessed parents telling their children:

• that it was stupid to read
• that they [the child] better get what they wanted out of school [now] before they [had to] drop out at [insert age here] so that the parent can get money from the government for them

He even saw a parent force her son to pretend that he was mentally challenged (there is some state/federal dollars in that, too). He told me his heart was breaking as he watched this parent tell her son that "there was no way he could go back to [high] school next year, because they would cut his disability check."

Yeah, people should be forced to take some type of parenting class.

I would have been on the phone to child services in a New York second!