Clip Groups

[StephV]

Hi!

As per the earlier suggestion on another thread, I'm giving clips a little try.

I had in mind to create a group for my lang tags, and another group for other various clips.

I noticed that clips that are nested under a group don't appear in the Clips bars or in the clips menus (under the Insert menu), only in the clips view, making them harder to fetch and occupying more interface space overall (if displaying the Clips view).

Is that an intended behavior? If so, does that mean that to make sure I see all my clips in the menus, I need to ungroup them?

Thank you very much!

[KevinH]

There are up 40 clips that can be triggered by toolbar buttons and 10 (or 20) that can be triggered by keyboard shortcuts. Any nested clips can be triggered in the ClipsWindow that can be docked to side of the MainWindow or be pulled off to float alongside anyplace you have space.

[StephV]

Originally Posted by KevinH

There are up 40 clips that can be triggered by toolbar buttons and 10 (or 20) that can be triggered by keyboard shortcuts. Any nested clips can be triggered in the ClipsWindow that can be docked to side of the MainWindow or be pulled off to float alongside anyplace you have space.

I guess I maybe not have been 100% clear, my apologies!

I have created groups of Clips, as seen here:



But these clips are not displayed in the toolbars (I deleted the "help" clip, which causes in turn the sub-menu to not even display):



They do, however, show up if they are not placed inside a group, or in the ClipsWindow

[KevinH]

Your images did not appear. So I will try again ...


Individual toolbar buttons (up to 40) are for frequently used clips. The first 10 buttons from each clips toolbar can be assigned shortcuts for even easier launching.

If you want to use clip groups open the ClipsWindow to locate and activate clips. It can be docked or float near by. This is not the same thing as the Clips Editing window.

To show the docked Clips Window, use the View->Clips menu.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by KevinH

Your images did not appear. So I will try again ...

Looks like these are the 2 links to StephV's exact images:

https://images2.imgbox.com/b8/8e/6aKoqQig_o.jpg
https://images2.imgbox.com/1e/50/Y3mScLQa_o.jpg

I'll attach them both too so they don't get lost.

[DNSB]

Images not appearing is becoming a more common issue. The most common cause is when the OP posts a link to a webpage that displays the image and not to the image itself. The options are either to post the image as a webpage URL or to find the image's direct link or (my personal choice) upload the image using MobileRead's paperclip or Manage attachments button.

[DiapDealer]

Most image upload sites don't allow hot-linking to other sites. Plus it just contributes to link rot when the images go away. Best practice is to attach them to the post, and them inlining them (like Tex2002ans did) to not run afoul of Mobileread's size limitations.

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by StephV

I noticed that clips that are nested under a group don't appear in the Clips bars or in the clips menus (under the Insert menu), only in the clips view, making them harder to fetch and occupying more interface space overall (if displaying the Clips view).

Is that an intended behavior? If so, does that mean that to make sure I see all my clips in the menus, I need to ungroup them?

Yes, I noticed this too while trying to teach you about the various ways to use Clips.

Since I always use the lower-left dock version of Clips... I never really messed with the menu/toolbar versions!

- - -

I think what StephV is trying to say is:

If the Clips are in a Group, they don't appear (correctly) in the menu/toolbar.

For example, if you press:

• Tools > Clip Editor

and you have:

• Italics
• Bold
• Smallcaps
• Languages
  
  • English
    
  • French
    
  • German
    

all you will see in:

• Insert > Clips

is:

• Italics
• Bold
• Smallcaps

and all you will see in the Clip Toolbar is:

• Italics
• Bold
• Smallcaps

Looks like Clips that are in Groups are "invisible" to these alternate methods.

Originally Posted by StephV

But these clips are not displayed in the toolbars (I deleted the "help" clip, which causes in turn the sub-menu to not even display):

I also noticed something weird with this too!

While I was messing with the Clip Toolbar, I saw a "Help" button in the #1 spot, so I deleted it.

After "Help" was gone, Sigil seemed to gobble up the very first real clip, so it wouldn't appear in the toolbar.

So, by default, Sigil looks like this:

• Help
• [... Then the giant list of pre-filled sample Clips...]

but if you deleted "Help":

• [... Giant list of pre-filled sample Clips...]

the toolbar/menu versions went wonky too.

I didn't look much closer, or narrow down the exact bug—I just took the screenshots(+finished writing my post) and made note of the oddity.

Perhaps there's an off-by-1 assumption in Sigil's menu/toolbar logic, because it assumes the Help Clip will always be there? Or isn't expecting slot 1 to be taken up by a Group?

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Plus it just contributes to link rot when the images go away.

Yes, exactly. So often now I visit/reference topics a few years old and see dead images.

From me rereading the context, I can usually remember what was in the original poster's image, but for someone who wasn't around during that time, the thread just looks like a giant mess with the warning triangles.

- - -

Side Note: About 3 months ago, Imgur—a huge image hosting site—purged all "anonymous images" deleting more than 14 years of tutorials and all sorts of important images like car repairs.

Luckily, ~1.8 billion images were saved, but tons were permanently lost:

• https://wiki.archiveteam.org/index.php/Imgur

Doesn't help all the old threads though... but if you really wanted to recover the image, and had the original URL, at least you can find a way to get your hands on it again.

- - -

Originally Posted by DNSB

Images not appearing is becoming a more common issue. The most common cause is when the OP posts a link to a webpage that displays the image and not to the image itself.

Ugh, the absolute worst are these requires-javascript image sites.

These are becoming more and more prevalent now—and when I try to view an image, the dang thing serves me up a blank page.

And it's even breaking Archive.org from being able to save those images.

[StephV]

As per usual, Tex2002ans is better than me at explaining, without images too! Yep, that's exactly the problem I have.

Clips contained within groups appear to be ignored/hidden from the menu/toolbars

Apologies for the images. With the delays between my responses, the moderator approvals, etc, I did not realize the links wouldn't work, as I wanted to use the Insert Image function rather than the attachment, but I'll take note for the future. I'm reattaching the images to this post for convenience.

So I have my group:



But an empty menu/toolbar:



I did make a first test group without deleting the help clip and the help clip was still the only one to be displayed in the menu/toolbars.

[KevinH]

Yes, Toolbar buttons are for *individual* clips. They do not cascade their own submenus. You can use the arrow keys in the ClipEditor to easily move them into and out of folders. And the ClipsWindow (docked) is the way to handle larger less frequently used clips that require organization. The Toolbar buttons are meant for very frequently used individual clips, not clip groups.

As far as I know, Sigil has always worked that way.

[StephV]

Noted!

Would it be possible to add groups in the toolbars in a future release?

In any case for now, I will ungroup the most used ones and leave the least used ones in the group. That does however mean that whenever I want to quickly use one of the grouped ones, I will have to pop out the Clips Window. I know most people use two monitors at the very least but right now I'm limited to just one, so you may understand my concerns with screen space and all. (I really need to put in a request for a second monitor at my job for my WFH setup... Ugh...)

[Tex2002ans]

Originally Posted by StephV

Would it be possible to add groups in the toolbars in a future release?

I'll have to poke around some more, but I was thinking similar, especially with the menu version.

I would've expected Groups to appear as submenus.

I can understand the Clips Toolbar not doing those multi-nested ones... but the menu version?

Anyway, like I explained, I never really poked around in 2 variants until yesterday. I never even saw the need to ever use Clips outside the dock! Once I learned that method years ago, I just stuck with it ever since!

(I forget which MR user first recommended the docked version to me, but thanks to whoever you were!)

Originally Posted by StephV

I will have to pop out the Clips Window. I know most people use two monitors at the very least but right now I'm limited to just one, so you may understand my concerns with screen space and all.

I find the bottom-left corner works awesome. Do you really need all that height for the list of files in the ebook?

Plus, my mouse is usually down in the bottom anyway while doing search/replaces, so having the Clips right there isn't much different.

Originally Posted by StephV

(I really need to put in a request for a second monitor at my job for my WFH setup... Ugh...)

2nd monitor is awesome. Original document on left screen, Sigil/ebook/Preview on right screen. This lets you easily scroll and ensure the right side matches the left document.

[theducks]

I can't imagine doing daily work without multiple Monitors.
In days of olde, you got printed reference guides, which tended to circle my work position. Now they are all 'e' versions. A perfect use for Monitor #3.

Preview on Monitor #4 (an old 4:3 in Portrait. FWIW Most e-ink devices are 4:3.) A perfect use for old hardware . Usually can be had for pennies at Garage sales.

Need more Video ports? Diamond Multimedia make a USB graphics adapter (It will suck up USB speed, so not the best combo if you are a heavy user of external USB disc) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1 I see a USB3 and 4K versions are now available
These work perfect for Edit Sessions ( no rapid screen paints )

[Turtle91]

Originally Posted by StephV

In any case for now, I will ungroup the most used ones and leave the least used ones in the group. That does however mean that whenever I want to quickly use one of the grouped ones, I will have to pop out the Clips Window. I know most people use two monitors at the very least but right now I'm limited to just one, so you may understand my concerns with screen space and all. (I really need to put in a request for a second monitor at my job for my WFH setup... Ugh...)

I only have 1 monitor now...although my wife complains that it is bigger than her tv...

I dock the Clips window so it shows up either below the book browser on the left side, or as a tab behind my Table of Contents and Preview windows on the right side. I flip-flop depending on how I'm feeling on any given day!!

[jwes]

Originally Posted by StephV

Hi!

As per the earlier suggestion on another thread, I'm giving clips a little try.

I had in mind to create a group for my lang tags, and another group for other various clips.

I noticed that clips that are nested under a group don't appear in the Clips bars or in the clips menus (under the Insert menu), only in the clips view, making them harder to fetch and occupying more interface space overall (if displaying the Clips view).

Is that an intended behavior? If so, does that mean that to make sure I see all my clips in the menus, I need to ungroup them?

Thank you very much!

You can also right-click in the code window and pick Clips.