Fun with Amazon: Defective PaperWhite

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Luv2ReadnCreate

Seems like some of you were incredibly rude to the Amazon reps you talked to.

Seems more like you have no clue what you are talking about. You have decided to attack the people who just want their Paperwhites, which they paid for, to actually work. For your information, I have not spoken to an Amazon rep. I have only done online chat with them. And most of that chat has been posted in this thread. So I have a record of each and every word that was exchanged. No rudeness at all, just good documentation.

Sounds like the problem is not with the Kindle. You likely have a corrupted ebook or document on it.

Sounds like you don't know how to troubleshoot. Paperwhite locks up. Reset. Locks up. Reset. Locks up. But I managed to finish the book. So it is restored to factory defaults and firmware is upgraded. The previous eBook has been purged at this point. A different eBook is put on the Paperwhite. Locks up. Reset. Locks up. Managed to finish the book anyway. Sent Paperwhite to Amazon. New firmware installed. Restored to factory default. Comes back to me with zero eBooks loaded (as expected). Put on yet another different eBook. Paperwhite locks up.

OK, using your diagnostic skills, I guess we should conclude that all the eBooks I own are corrupted. Certainly, that sounds very logical (to you at least).

I've had several refurbed electronic devices over the years and have never had a problem with them. They were all flawness and worked perfectly.

Well, that proves it then. Nobody could ever have a problem with a refurb, because you personally have not. The ultimate in logic.

There is nothing wrong with a refurb. They are inspected carefully and like new.

Like the one Barbara got? Did you even read anything in this thread before posting? Here's what Barbara said:

Well it arrived today.... So I decided to check it out before I contacted Amazon. They sent me a Defective Device!!! Lower Right has been held so firmly the thing around the light is mushed the area looks dark gray...light is working but cant reflect upwards into a clear cone. There are several bright light spots on the screen. UGH here we go again!

Yeah, that refurb was most certainly "inspected carefully and like new" now wasn't it?

I have little sympathy for people who immediately have an attitude and treat customer service people poorly.

You are not me, you are not Barbara, you are not any of the Amazon customer service reps we have been dealing with. You have zero knowledge of what has gone on. ZERO. But yet, you claim to know about attitudes, poor treatment, rudeness, etc. Do you actually expect anyone to take you seriously? We'd prefer to have Paperwhites that actually work instead of your sympathy anyway.

It is obvious that you want to defend Amazon and hold them blameless. Which might be a noble thing in some circumstances. However, blind defense given your total lack of knowledge about specific events is not one of those noble cases.

[Barbara1955]

Originally Posted by Luv2ReadnCreate

There is nothing wrong with a refurb. They are inspected carefully and like new. I've had several refurbed electronic devices over the years and have never had a problem with them. They were all flawness and worked perfectly. You sound awfully hostile toward Amazon.

I too have worked in Sales .... Raised Dogs Had a Business Lic... So if I Didn't deal with problems correctly I would have had BBB dealing with me! Also worked in Retail... BUT I NEVER Lied to Anyone.... When a CS rep tells me or anyone they are going to Replace something broken with a Brand New one & Don't that a down right Lie! I really don't do well with people that LIE! And then sends a Used Defective Device.... Really How would You feel???

[Barbara1955]

Originally Posted by Barbara1955

Re-contact Amazon and Ask where the refund went. My Gift card balance is already posted on Amazon. I just not sure where the rest went. Today I got my Credit Card statement nothing posted on it for March at all.... I have to wait another month to see if its posted on next billing cycle ugh

I am sooo PI$$ED! I got the Credit card bill today Instead of Amazon Giving me BACK the $51 for the org PW3 they TOOK it.... No Refund a CHARGE!! [amazon & me slapping them!] Now I know why they never asked for it back! UPDATE Called now suppose to be straighten out.

[Luv2ReadnCreate]

Why are you so rude and hostile? I was neither to you. Sheesh.

Originally Posted by haertig

Seems more like you have no clue what you are talking about. You have decided to attack the people who just want their Paperwhites, which they paid for, to actually work. For your information, I have not spoken to an Amazon rep. I have only done online chat with them. And most of that chat has been posted in this thread. So I have a record of each and every word that was exchanged. No rudeness at all, just good documentation.


Sounds like you don't know how to troubleshoot. Paperwhite locks up. Reset. Locks up. Reset. Locks up. But I managed to finish the book. So it is restored to factory defaults and firmware is upgraded. The previous eBook has been purged at this point. A different eBook is put on the Paperwhite. Locks up. Reset. Locks up. Managed to finish the book anyway. Sent Paperwhite to Amazon. New firmware installed. Restored to factory default. Comes back to me with zero eBooks loaded (as expected). Put on yet another different eBook. Paperwhite locks up.

OK, using your diagnostic skills, I guess we should conclude that all the eBooks I own are corrupted. Certainly, that sounds very logical (to you at least).


Well, that proves it then. Nobody could ever have a problem with a refurb, because you personally have not. The ultimate in logic.


Like the one Barbara got? Did you even read anything in this thread before posting? Here's what Barbara said:



Yeah, that refurb was most certainly "inspected carefully and like new" now wasn't it?


You are not me, you are not Barbara, you are not any of the Amazon customer service reps we have been dealing with. You have zero knowledge of what has gone on. ZERO. But yet, you claim to know about attitudes, poor treatment, rudeness, etc. Do you actually expect anyone to take you seriously? We'd prefer to have Paperwhites that actually work instead of your sympathy anyway.

It is obvious that you want to defend Amazon and hold them blameless. Which might be a noble thing in some circumstances. However, blind defense given your total lack of knowledge about specific events is not one of those noble cases.

[Barbara1955]

Originally Posted by Luv2ReadnCreate

Why are you so rude and hostile? I was neither to you. Sheesh.

Yes you were Rude to Both of us. You act like we were Lying about Amazon CS Yet ALL Chat was posted & What we Received in Instead of the NEW replacements we were Promised Not one Not twice But Several Times.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by Luv2ReadnCreate

Why are you so rude and hostile? I was neither to you. Sheesh.

???

Seems like some of you were incredibly rude to the Amazon reps you talked to.

Your first statement made in ignorance. Alongside your somewhat smug implied conclusion that we acted inappropriately.

As someone who has done that kind of work myself (not for Amazon thought),

Not just smug, but a bit condescending too.

I have little sympathy for people who immediately have an attitude and treat customer service people poorly.

Statement made in ignorance #2 (immediately have an attitude). Statement made in ignorance #3 (treat people poorly).

Yes, you were rude and hostile to us. And you are incorrect right now, by trying to project your own behavior back on us for calling out the smug and condescending posts meant to besmirch us.

You need to realize that you are interacting with book readers here. Which generally equates to a highly intelligent bunch of people, who are capable of understanding the meaning of words, picking up on subtleties, intuiting intent, and reading between the lines. And judging by your written words, I think you are exactly the same. Intelligent and sharp of mind. You are able to carefully craft a put down disguised as a helpful post. But remember, we are all readers. We can do the same thing, and we also recognize it when it is being done.

Personally, I would characterize my previous responses to you as "firm" and "blunt" rather than "rude" and "hostile". That is what I intended. But the result is of course open to interpretation. Good authors can convey their message expertly, using just written words. That's why we read them. But I am not an author, let alone a good one. I apologize if you read rude/hostile into my words, as I actually intended firm/blunt. There is a fine line between firm/blunt and rude/hostile/condescending/sarcastic, and I may have crossed that.

Bottom line: I just want my stupid PaperWhite to work. I paid for the blasted thing.

[Luv2ReadnCreate]

People like you are why I went years without posting and why I will never post here again. I had no attitude. I was trying to help you based on my experience with my Kindle locking up (both times it was due to a bad book), but you chose to pitch a fit and shred me-twice. I will never make the mistake of trying to help anyone again.

Originally Posted by haertig

???


Your first statement made in ignorance. Alongside your somewhat smug implied conclusion that we acted inappropriately.


Not just smug, but a bit condescending too.


Statement made in ignorance #2 (immediately have an attitude). Statement made in ignorance #3 (treat people poorly).

Yes, you were rude and hostile to us. And you are incorrect right now, by trying to project your own behavior back on us for calling out the smug and condescending posts meant to besmirch us.

You need to realize that you are interacting with book readers here. Which generally equates to a highly intelligent bunch of people, who are capable of understanding the meaning of words, picking up on subtleties, intuiting intent, and reading between the lines. And judging by your written words, I think you are exactly the same. Intelligent and sharp of mind. You are able to carefully craft a put down disguised as a helpful post. But remember, we are all readers. We can do the same thing, and we also recognize it when it is being done.

Personally, I would characterize my previous responses to you as "firm" and "blunt" rather than "rude" and "hostile". That is what I intended. But the result is of course open to interpretation. Good authors can convey their message expertly, using just written words. That's why we read them. But I am not an author, let alone a good one. I apologize if you read rude/hostile into my words, as I actually intended firm/blunt. There is a fine line between firm/blunt and rude/hostile/condescending/sarcastic, and I may have crossed that.

Bottom line: I just want my stupid PaperWhite to work. I paid for the blasted thing.

[Luv2ReadnCreate]

Originally Posted by Barbara1955

Yes you were Rude to Both of us. You act like we were Lying about Amazon CS Yet ALL Chat was posted & What we Received in Instead of the NEW replacements we were Promised Not one Not twice But Several Times.

I never accused anyone of lying, period. I merely said the impression I'd gotten from some of the posts here is that some of you were less than nice to the reps you talked to, nothing more.

As I said previously, reactions like this are why I stopped posting years ago and why I never will post again. You were both incredibly nasty to me for no reason.

[Barbara1955]

Originally Posted by Luv2ReadnCreate

I never accused anyone of lying, period. I merely said the impression I'd gotten from some of the posts here is that some of you were less than nice to the reps you talked to, nothing more.

As I said previously, reactions like this are why I stopped posting years ago and why I never will post again. You were both incredibly nasty to me for no reason.

Do you know How to READ.... Go Back to Page 1 Post 1 of this Thread...

[BookCat]

I've been reading through this entire post with interest. My general experience with Amazon CS has been positive, but (touch wood) I haven't had to contact them regarding problems with my Paperwhite.

No one has been rude or hostile to anyone: not to Amazon reps, or to you, Luv2ReadnCreate. What I believe is being expressed is ever increasing frustration at Amazon's inability/disinclination to solve problems properly. Peeps having problems with their Paperwhites have been struggling to have these issues sorted to their satisfaction; they've stated their reasons for not wanting refurbs: the battery.

Don't take this venting personally. Barbara and haertig have been led a not-so-merry dance by Amazon and still haven't had their issues addressed. Wouldn't you be ranting? I know I would.

[Barbara1955]

I think ... mind I am Not that Smart. BUT Amazon NEEDS to Add in the Warranty that When Kindles or Fires Break they are Replaced with REFRIBISHED ...Not New & CS peeps NEED to know this & Stop promising New. IF this is Not a Policy then Amazon Needs to Do better background checks .... seems the CS reps are doing switches. Lining their pockets. IMO

[haertig]

I have decided to keep my defective PaperWhite, and live with the lockups.

Why? Because of another thread here on our forums, "Amazon behaving badly (again)"

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=296082

If I try again to get my (still) defective PaperWhite replaced, Amazon may decide to ban my account. Since the PaperWhite only cost me $89 on sale, and I use a lot more in shipping charges than that per year with Amazon, I don't really want my Prime cancelled. For doing nothing more than wanting the product they designed, manufactured and sold me ... to ... work.

Do I like this? Not in the slightest. It is certainly not fair to have to settle for a defective product. But this is a purely financial decision for me - what are the potential gains vs. the potential losses. Amazon is highly unethical for cutting off peoples Prime accounts because they decide they don't like you, as reported in the linked thread above. That is horrible bullying behavior. Not a company I'd be proud of if I owned it.

But when you're the biggest bully in the room, I guess you get to bully. Doesn't matter if it's fair or ethical, you get to do it none-the-less. Amazon is mostly good. But with some terribly bad thrown in here and there.

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by haertig

I have decided to keep my defective PaperWhite, and live with the lockups.

Why? Because of another thread here on our forums, "Amazon behaving badly (again)"

That seems an oddly passive choice to me. They should be able to understand that the device is still not working after the supposed repair and that replacement is required.

Your account isn’t in danger unless you have gone through this sort of thing several times already.

[Barbara1955]

IF amazon is going to close any ones account over this it would be mine. Please don't worry about it & let them know its Not working.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by jhowell

They should be able to understand...

Emphasis on "should be". Likewise, they "should be" able to understand that me signing up for a new Prime membership free trial one day after canceling my previous paid Prime membership was not fraud, since they are the ones who inexplicably cancelled my Prime account after I reported a defective PaperWhite, and they are the ones who told me to sign up for another trial. They had to make "special accommodations" for me to be able to sign up for that second free trial.

As reported in the other thread, they seem to cancel accounts for behavior with footprints this, using some non-human algorithm that hits the "cancel button" at the first hint of something fishy. Whether justified of not. And they won't even tell you the reason they cancelled the account, other than "you violated some or other term or condition".

Isn't the above potential for problems the jist of what was reported in that other thread I linked? Should Amazon be trusted to do the right thing (especially after what they've done thus far?) Or would I just potentially become one of their statistics of "Well, this doesn't happen to very many people, so we can ignore it. Too bad for you."

As I said before "potential gains vs. potential losses". It's like day trading on the stock market. You set buy points, sell points, and stop-loss points. You look at your potential gains vs. potential losses when setting these critical points. If your potential gain to potential loss ratio is not 4x or greater, you walk away from the trade. That's what I'm doing here. My potential gain is $89 (a new PaperWhite, on sale). My potential loss is in the hundreds. So my potential-gain-to-loss ratio is less than one ... far from the 4x that would allow me take the trade in the stock market. The name of the game is you shoot for big gains, and accept small losses. You might have 8 small losses and 2 big gains in a day of trading, and come out very well in total (that's typical actually). You never shoot for small gains with the potential for big losses. That's how you go broke. Very quickly. Probably the most critical thing in trading is setting a good stop-loss point. A PaperWhite that works most of the time, but locks up sometimes, is my stop-loss point.

It took me a while in this thread to see the big picture. Lots of good info here, and lots of good info in the other thread I linked to - sift through all that info and logically set that all-critical stop-loss point. I realize now that I was trying to set my stop-loss point emotionally - something that never works out well in the end.

None of this absolves Amazon of bad behavior. As I said previously, it is purely a financial decision for me at this point. New information that I glean on Amazon behavior in the future may make me reevaluate my potential gain and potential loss numbers - and as a result I may "take the trade" at some future date.