01-21-2018, 01:27 PM | #76 | |
Wizard
Posts: 2,459
Karma: 68781975
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Arkansas
Device: Paperwhite 4
|
Quote:
As for Grisham, I liked his first several books but not because of his writing, which I thought was fair at best, but he told interesting stories. Later in his career they became stories about how bad our world is and that just doesn't interest me much and I finally gave up on them. I'll probably read some of his earlier books again in time. In particular, I'm sure I'll read "The Last Juror" again. It's easily my favorite of his books. Barry |
|
01-23-2018, 02:08 PM | #77 |
Bibliophile
Posts: 166
Karma: 934516
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cantal in the French Auvergne
Device: Kindle Voyage, Kobo Libra H20, Kindle PW2, Moon Pro on Lenovo tablet
|
I'd always thought that Arthur Ransome would be pretty politically correct (having married Trotsky's secretary), but at the denouement of his Swallows & Amazons novel "The Big Six" one of the characters uses a word that has now (in editions published after the author's death) become "negroes".
It is such a celebrated occurrence that it gets a mention in that Wiki page. It's worth noting that Ransome puts it into the mouth of one of the three working-class protagonists (Pete, of the Death and Glories). Ransome probably thought that in 1940, when the book was written, middle-class children wouldn't use the word. Ransome's dialogue is quite well tuned to the different backgrounds of the children concerned. I first read the book in the early 1960s (myself a working class boy in SE London), but even by then the usage stuck out as anachronistic. |
Advert | |
|
01-23-2018, 02:38 PM | #78 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,898
Karma: 9851695
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Noo Yawk
Device: Samsung Galaxy and Windows devices. RIP: Palm & Nook devices.
|
Quote:
|
|
02-01-2018, 10:25 AM | #79 |
Home Guard
Posts: 4,730
Karma: 86721650
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard
Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6
|
I usually read older books with an eye to when they were written. Most of them reflect the attitudes of the cultural the author was living in.
Most of us believe the things we were taught or absorbed while we were growing up unless we are forced in some way to reconsider, like, for example, the person who learns a family member is gay. But still some older books are too much for me, especially if it's particularly malicious. |
02-01-2018, 05:49 PM | #80 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,520
Karma: 11250344
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NE Oregon
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Pocketbook Era, Kindle Oasis 2
|
To be honest, no. I quite enjoy older books, they are a step back into completely different times. Sometimes simpler times, but mostly tougher times. The world is a different place today than it was then. Frankly, I think people worry too much about the political correctness of books today. An author's writing can be enjoyable even when some bits are a sensitive topic.
I grew up reading my father's childhood books by Leo Edwards because I was an insatiable reader from the get go and no one could keep me in books, and oh my, they are like the total antithesis of political correctness. Stereotypes everywhere, the 'n' word, gangs and fights (frequently with rotten eggs or fruit) villains who were often overweight, you name it. I suppose in some ways they might even have been a bit progressive, I can remember several instances of one of the boys dressing as a girl to fool someone, LOL! They were funny and silly as heck though and all were mysteries and I still love them today. Long live Jerry Todd and Poppy Ott! And long live laughter and not taking ourselves too seriously! Mind you, I'd have loved to read more books with girl characters back then, I distinctly felt the lack between my father's Leo Edward books and his Hardy Boys, but I don't think it hurt me any.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Advert | |
|
02-01-2018, 07:02 PM | #81 | |
o saeclum infacetum
Posts: 20,391
Karma: 223344556
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5
|
Quote:
I have to confess that I've never read any of the Ott or Todd books, but clearly this is a sign that I must redress the situation. Remembering my father tonight on his anniversary. Thank you again. |
|
02-01-2018, 08:18 PM | #82 | |
Hedge Wizard
Posts: 802
Karma: 19999999
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK/Philippines
Device: Kobo Touch, Nook Simple
|
Quote:
|
|
02-01-2018, 09:38 PM | #83 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,054
Karma: 15107670
Join Date: May 2017
Device: Sage, Scribe, Boox Note 2 Plus, iPad Pros and Samsungs S6,S7,S8
|
I do not believe a book can be racist. In the past they were story's of what was the periods norm and way of life of that era so to me reading an old old book is looking into past and is part of history or more like a history lesson to me. Kinda like the old Fred Astaire movies. They are hard to find for the way they portrayed blacks but I love the movies for you get a glimpse of life from another era and those old banned loony tunes cartoons. I simply love them. I watched Swing Time a few months ago and I can watch fred dance all day
|
02-01-2018, 11:10 PM | #84 |
Gentleman and scholar
Posts: 11,134
Karma: 109515481
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Space City, Texas
Device: Clara HD; Nook ST w/Glowlight, (2015) Glowlight Plus, Paperwhite 3
|
|
02-02-2018, 05:22 AM | #85 |
Wizard
Posts: 4,745
Karma: 246906703
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Device: Oasis 3, Oasis 2, PW3, PW1, KT
|
|
02-02-2018, 01:39 PM | #86 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,520
Karma: 11250344
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NE Oregon
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Pocketbook Era, Kindle Oasis 2
|
Quote:
Thanks to eBay, I was able to read the missing books as an adult. While the books (and Chatter-boxes) are not perhaps what parents might prefer to give their children today, they had a lot of good too. Sticking up for one's friends, even when scared, helping others (the boys often helped out elderly women), and encouraging kids to find ways to earn money by thinking creatively were prominent themes! The Bert Salg illustrations were priceless! Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk |
|
02-02-2018, 01:42 PM | #87 | |
Wizard
Posts: 1,520
Karma: 11250344
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NE Oregon
Device: Kobo Sage, Forma, Pocketbook Era, Kindle Oasis 2
|
Quote:
Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk |
|
02-02-2018, 05:01 PM | #88 |
Wizard
Posts: 1,230
Karma: 64273280
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Norway
Device: PocketBook Touch Lux (had Onyx Boox Poke 3 and BeBook Neo earlier)
|
I've stopped reading a book once because it was so sexist it was annoying. (It was a crime story from the 1920s or thereabouts, and the women were described as so unbelievably silly they were like blonde jokes on stereoids.)
I've abandoned some series because of sexism and racism, but only modern ones. In older books, if the book is otherwise well written, it's easier to see such things with some distance, but in modern books I really expect better. ...and of course, it's easier for me to see such things with distance because I experience relatively little discrimination myself, as a white straight cisgender woman, in a majority white country which isn't too bad with regard to gender equality. Last edited by hildea; 02-02-2018 at 05:04 PM. |
02-03-2018, 12:07 AM | #89 | |
Bookmaker & Cat Slave
Posts: 11,468
Karma: 158448243
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Device: K2, iPad, KFire, PPW, Voyage, NookColor. 2 Droid, Oasis, Boox Note2
|
Quote:
Agreed. I grew up reading everything from the Maida books to Nancy Drew, to the Hardy Boys to ESG's Masons, and I've managed to avoid talking myself or Correctness so seriously that I'd deprive myself of the richness that they can bring. How can I possibly hold what Sayers wrote against her, given her time, her age, her upbringing? Would I be better off, had I never read DLS? Or Twain? I hardly think so. Am I offended by racism, sexism, etc.? Sure, but not by people who lived 100 years ago. I'm more offended by implicit sexism in stuff made today--for example, watch ANY cop show or movie, with a scene with a screaming infant, child, or whacked-out woman. You ever see them hand the screaming brat to a male cop? Nooooooooooooooooo. They instantly turn to a woman, no matter how senior, etc. It's tooth-grindingly offensive. If somebody tried to hand that kid to me, they'd best be prepared to be thinking about prosthetics for their hands. It's that sort of crap that gets me--not what ESG wrote to reference a black man in 1930's. Who am I to be such a patronized asshat that I'd tell ESG or Dickens or DLS what they "should have" thought and written in their day? Hitch |
|
02-03-2018, 08:05 PM | #90 |
Wizard
Posts: 2,459
Karma: 68781975
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Arkansas
Device: Paperwhite 4
|
Here's a video by Simon Winchester about Al Jolson that's very pertinent to this discussion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Tm7bMUhUw It seems Jolson is thought of as a racist today because he's mostly remembered for the film "The Jazz Singer" in which he appeared a lot in blackface. In fact, he was very much not a racist in real life and helped a lot of black performers get their start. Newspapers in Harlem proclaimed him a hero and huge numbers of blacks attended his funeral. It's hard to judge another time from our time. And given the issues we face today I'm not sure our time is so much better than the past. Barry |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Free (Kindle DRM-free) An Older Man by Wayne Hoffman [LGBT Literary/Men's Fiction] | ATDrake | Deals and Resources (No Self-Promotion or Affiliate Links) | 0 | 05-16-2016 05:08 PM |