I'm scared, frustrated, don't know who to go to anymore

[patrickt]

At our local university a survey showed that over 70% of the students did not consider copying off someone else's paper dishonest. An applicant for a job confessed that he helped finance his college education, PhD, by massive shoplifting. He spent an hour justifying what he'd done but he didn't get the job. I'm sure he could have "justified" stealing from us, too.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by patrickt

At our local university a survey showed that over 70% of the students did not consider copying off someone else's paper dishonest. An applicant for a job confessed that he helped finance his college education, PhD, by massive shoplifting. He spent an hour justifying what he'd done but he didn't get the job. I'm sure he could have "justified" stealing from us, too.

As for academic copying, I thought the rule was "copy from one is cheating, copy from many is research."

As for the confessed shoplifter, was it really as cut and dried as you make it sound? Was there any extenuating circumstances or grey area? Can you give an example of what he said he did and how he justified it?

I'm thinking, for example, if he said he survived by taking extra ketchup packets from MacDonalds and sampling two or three grapes from produce stands, it might not be quite as bad as it sounds.....

[RolandD]

Originally Posted by Skydog

The real problem is the general degradation of ethics and the indifference to unacceptable behavior. Stealing, cheating on school exams, lying, scamming, sadly, has become the new norm for far too many.

Exactly, people don't seem to realize that we have a moral and ethical obligation to society. Regardless of what a stores policy is, returning items on a whim without a valid reason damages our society.

By the logic I'm hearing from some, just because a mark allows a grifter to take his money, the grifter is justified and has a right to do so.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by RolandD

returning items on a whim without a valid reason damages our society.

What I'm taking issue with is you arbitrarily deciding what is a valid reason, in total disregard for what the rest of society has decided and codified in policy.

I might even be able to make a case for whimsical returns driving the economy, and therefore improving society, but within reasonable limits I agree with the sentiment. Just not the way you apply it.

[geoffwood]

Originally Posted by RolandD

Regardless of what a stores policy is, returning items on a whim without a valid reason damages our society.

Damaging society

You're funny, thanks for the laugh.

[ProfCrash]

So the truth is finally out. He returned too many items and Amazon finally said enough.

Gee, I can see why that wasn't stated from day one.

If you are going to go after a company be honest in your posts. I don't buy for a second that he was not aware that he had an account closed due to too many sales and his new account was tagged by an IP address or something similar and closed.

[RolandD]

Originally Posted by ApK

What I'm taking issue with is you arbitrarily deciding what is a valid reason, in total disregard for what the rest of society has decided and codified in policy.

I might even be able to make a case for whimsical returns driving the economy, and therefore improving society, but within reasonable limits I agree with the sentiment. Just not the way you apply it.

I very big on personal responsibility and considering all the ramification of an action before taking it. If you buy a big screen TV and a week or so later realize that you're not going to have enough for rent, that's stupidity on your part and should not be rewarded by a lax return policy.

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right to do it.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by RolandD

Just because you can do something doesn't make it right to do it.

Just because you say something is wrong doesn't make it wrong.

[Skydog]

Originally Posted by ApK

Just because you say something is wrong doesn't make it wrong.

O.k., how's this -- it isn't right!

[RolandD]

Originally Posted by ApK

You feel free to never return anything if, say, your wife tells you can't keep it, or if you get a duplicate as a gift, or if you find that in the light of your home, the color clashes, or the big screen turns out to be too close to your thermostats, or any of a zillion other LEGITIMATE reasons.
But you eat the money. Go ahead, THAT is taking personal responsibilty.
But telling OTHER people that their legitimate reasons are illegitimate?
That's just being a

Let's see here, if my wife tells me I can't keep it, then I never should have bought it without discussing it with her first.

A duplicate gift should remain unopened and not be a problem.

The color clashes: I might give you that one, because a lot of people don't have a good sense of color.

Big Screen too close to the thermostats? You should have measured first.

Let me clarify a few things:

I said opened items. If you buy something that would require your spouse's approval, then don't open it until you have her approval. At the very least, repackage it so that it is in like new condition. I've seen people return items that look like a gorilla opened the package and then repacked it. Items like that are no longer sale-able as new and must be discounted.

When I made that post, I was in a hurry and 'defective' was not the word I should have used, but it was short. I meant 'imperfect in fulfilling the need for which it was purchased through no fault of your own'.

If there was something you could have done prior to purchasing an item that would have educated you to the fact that you would need to return the item, it is your responsibility to do it.

And if you still think I am a jackass, that's fine. But, the only way to change those things that society accepts as right, even though they aren't, is to speak out.

As I said in an earlier post, I return stuff for illegitimate reasons, too. But, I try to make every effort possible, not to. I'm not saying that you can't make returns, or even shouldn't make returns, but if you make a return that you could have prevented, then you should feel a little bit of guilt. The cost of returns is factored into the retail price, just like the cost of shoplifting.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by RolandD

But, the only way to change those things that society accepts as right, even though they aren't, is to speak out.

I agree. That's why I'm taking the time to tell you how wrong you are.

[geoffwood]

Originally Posted by RolandD

As I said in an earlier post, I return stuff for illegitimate reasons, too. But, I try to make every effort possible, not to. I'm not saying that you can't make returns, or even shouldn't make returns, but if you make a return that you could have prevented, then you should feel a little bit of guilt. The cost of returns is factored into the retail price, just like the cost of shoplifting.

For a while there I thought you were amusing, but you're not, you're just annoying and sanctimonious.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

So the truth is finally out. He returned too many items and Amazon finally said enough.

Gee, I can see why that wasn't stated from day one.

If you are going to go after a company be honest in your posts. I don't buy for a second that he was not aware that he had an account closed due to too many sales and his new account was tagged by an IP address or something similar and closed.

I don't see how you come to that conclusion from the OP's posts. Especially considering that his account has now been fully reinstated.

[geoffwood]

RolandD,

Thanks for the expletive laden PM. Good get some insight into your true character.

I've forwarded it onto the Moderators for them to handle as appropriate.

[RolandD]

Originally Posted by geoffwood

RolandD,

Thanks for the expletive laden PM. Good get some insight into your true character.

I've forwarded it onto the Moderators for them to handle as appropriate.

Maybe if you had actually contributed something to the discussion I wouldn't have told you to f**k off.

Also, I am familiar with APK and value their opinion and insight. I don't know you from Adam and your comments offer no insight, but do annoy me.