Clovis Killer Discovery

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by SameOldStory

But I still have to wonder, Why?

In a counterpoint-- why not? Back then, everyone was a hunter-gatherer. There were no fixed, permanent dwellings. You went where the food went. And that can mean following migrating herds. Not even necessarily of something as dramatic as mammoths-- caribou or reindeer will do nicely, and can migrate thousands of miles per year. Even moving from known seasonal breeding grounds for one type of animal to another will do-- go where the bird eggs are in their season, where the seal pups (to take your example) are in another. And we are talking long stretches of time (from a human scale, not a geological one.) It doesn't have to be a group migrating a thousand miles in 10 years-- surely people lived on the "bridge" as much as they lived on either side. Groups "diffusing" outward at a rate of 1 mile every 10 years thanks to population pressures would get human populations 1,000 miles in 10,000 years-- and there was easily much more time than 10,000 years to work with. How many hunter-gathers per square mile can an arctic environment (in the present or the past) support? Not many, I would think. Even a tiny rate of population growth would put pressure on people to move outwards.

That's pretty much my point. Even living in a hostile environment that you know can seem better than moving into an area that may (or may not, of course) be worse.

As I mentioned above, it doesn't have to be moving to a hostile environment that you don't know-- it can be your children move a couple of miles from you-- and their children a couple of miles from them, etc, compounded over hundreds of generations. Not gonna be much difference in environment over short distances.

[cromag]

Knowing people the way I do ( ) I'm very sure there were multiple migrations by several (perhaps many) ethnic groups from many geographic origins over the many years that land migration was possible. And possibly a few stragglers who came by sea, the way the islands of the Pacific were populated. Humans have a messy way of doing things like that without regard for the researchers who will have to untangle the mess long after they're gone.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Well sure, we are a people that do what is easy, it was probably easy to make a living off of seals and maybe that is all there is at the root of the migration, but I don't know that I've ever seen that as a root cause....maybe...

Perhaps God told them to.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Perhaps God told them to.

Could be.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Could be.

Then again perhaps someone kept saying


"wonder what's over that hill?"

[kennyc]

Or "wonder what's on the other side of that endless expanse of ice and snow?"

[GeoffC]

Or - "hey there goes lunch" ..... >>>>>

[kennyc]

From the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...,7839145.story

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by kennyc

From the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...,7839145.story

Interesting, but can't be true - they be older than 6021 years ....

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I learn a lot from reading this forum! Genuinely never had heard of the Clovis people until today. Always good to learn something new.

Should watch some more History Channel then


And I thought they had found what killed those Clovis people... I once saw a documentary that theorized it was the ending of the ice age that did them in. (a huge influx of sweet water into the atlantic ocean which caused a new, minor ice age)

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

And I thought they had found what killed those Clovis people... I once saw a documentary that theorized it was the ending of the ice age that did them in. (a huge influx of sweet water into the atlantic ocean which caused a new, minor ice age)

You are thinking of the Younger Dryas (which would make a great name for a diaper.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...oq=younger+dry

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

And I thought they had found what killed those Clovis people... I once saw a documentary that theorized it was the ending of the ice age that did them in. (a huge influx of sweet water into the atlantic ocean which caused a new, minor ice age)

That event caused major climatic change in Northern Europe - it's thought, because it disrupted the Gulf Stream which plays a significant role in moderating the climate of that part of the world.

[wodin]

I’ve always had doubts about the “landbridge” hypothesis. It seems to me that the landbridge was created by lowering of sea level due to glaciations. If that be the case, wouldn’t said landbridge be covered by miles deep ice? A bit of a hostile environment for any wandering seal hunters ‘twould seem to me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by wodin

I’ve always had doubts about the “landbridge” hypothesis. It seems to me that the landbridge was created by lowering of sea level due to glaciations. If that be the case, wouldn’t said landbridge be covered by miles deep ice? A bit of a hostile environment for any wandering seal hunters ‘twould seem to me.

It's more than a hypothesis - it's supported by plenty of hard evidence. Eg, analysis of the oxygen content of mud in core-samples taken from below the Bering Strait conclusively shows that it was dry land for a period of many tens of thousands of years. During the last ice age, sea levels were at least 50m lower than they are today.

[wodin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's more than a hypothesis - it's supported by plenty of hard evidence. Eg, analysis of the oxygen content of mud in core-samples taken from below the Bering Strait conclusively shows that it was dry land for a period of many tens of thousands of years. During the last ice age, sea levels were at least 50m lower than they are today.

Dry land perhaps, but dry land covered by miles deep ice?

My problem is not that there wasn’t a landbridge, but that given the conditions that caused it; it would have been less amenable to migration than open ocean. And in fact even today there is an ice bridge during part of the year and you don’t see anyone migrating across that!