Why this Apple Fan doesn't read iBooks

[leebase]

Originally Posted by shanghaichica

I’ve never really taken to iBooks. By the time iBooks launched I had already bought my first kindle and built up a considerable Library. Then came the price fixing debacle which also put me off iBooks. But fundamentally my main reading device will always be an eink device and more specifically a kindle. I can’t read iBooks on a kindle without putting in some effort. On the rare occasions I want to/need to read on one of my iPads or iPhone I would just use the kindle app.

I hear you. I do like the look of iBooks over just about anything. I even liked the gimmicky "Page curl" effect. I wasn't until recently, a user of eInk kindles. Everything I read was on my iPhone or iPad.

Kind of glad I stuck with Amazon. I do think it's sad that the competition in the space has died. I haven't changed my mind that Apple was doing a good and healthy thing for the market and that Amazon was the "monopolist" that needed to be checked.

[Quoth]

Hilarious. Frying pan and Fire.
Amazon has 92% of English language ebook market.
Apple for iPhone and iPad is a greedy 90% profit margin megacorp, one of the largest.

There is almost no retail ebook content competition. Apple is no saviour in that. You can't read their ebooks outside of their ecosystem which doesn't include eInk.

Sony did good eink and years before Kindle existed. They decided they weren't interested in just selling the hardware when their bookstore failed.

Booksellers need decoupled from Hardware or else there eventually will only be Kindle eink, which has never really innovated (nor has Apple, their Smart phone and MP3 player and Tablet years after market proven and not innovative).

Kobo hardware is the only serious competition to Kindle But their bookshop has tiny market share.
Apple and Google have very small market share of ebook sales. Google oddly one of the lowest.

There never really has been ebook competition since Amazon bought Mobipocket a couple of years before they released the first Kindle eInk. That was just after Sony released the first eink based ereader. Before that people had used phones, PDAs (even only 160x160 pixel Palm) and even CRTs or laptops.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Quoth

...there eventually will only be Kindle eink, which has never really innovated...

Kindle bestrides the ereader world like a Colossus. But their latest offerings (current Paperwhite and Basic) have been major improvements over previous generations. Lately Kindle has really stepped up their game. Even if I am not interested in purchasing one, I can give credit where credit is due.

Also, the DX, Voyage and Oasis were pretty innovative.

[Quoth]

I have the DXG and the DX & DXG just basically KK2 with bigger screen. It was a failure for University text books which was market. Too slow for PDFs and 167 dpi @ 9.7" is too poor.

The 2022 Basic seems like a PW3.

Voyage and Oasis too expensive. The Scribe is a new departure, but not innovative. They have no doubt waited till the 300 dpi screen available after DX/DGX disaster.

The models after PW3 are incremental changes with increased storage a default on most new models of anything. The Oasis far more worthwhile upgrade from PW3 than Voyage, but madly expensive. The Oasis gen 4 hardly much difference to an Oasis 3rd Gen with 32G & Cellular (which I just gave to someone).
The ancient 6" Sony (PRS650?) before the T1 is better than pre-2022 Kindle Basic.
Amazon bought in Mobipocket and the eink screens. Mostly behind other eink models for the last 15 years. The Scribe is the first to leap frog all the other 10″+ size eink, but only because the 300 dpi screen is new and they are all 227 dpi approx.
Only actual users will reveal how well the Wacom stylus is used. That's what a reMarkable uses and it's one of the worst 227dpi 10.3″ eink with a digitiser. Poorer than defunct Sony and much poorer than the Elipsa.

Soon the competition will also have 300 dpi 10″ approx screens.

[Cactus Chef]

It will be difficult to decouple hardware from marketplace, as it's already an increasingly specialized market for dedicated e-ink devices.

An e-ink device reads books really well, and that's about it. Some can also read Pocket articles. Larger ones might be able to read PDFs or black-and-white comics comfortably, and a subset of those have stylus support, but that's about it.

Meanwhile your average ios/Android tablet can:

• read books
• read color comics
• watch videos
• access specialized apps to read certain things (i.e. Libby, Wikipedia, etc)
• browse the internet

So for your average consumer, if they've already got a tablet, the only compelling reasons they have to switch to a dedicated e-ink reader would be:

1. They want a reading device larger than their phone but more portable than the average 8-10" tablet
2. They want to read late at night without the tablet backlight keeping them awake

Given how much of the market Amazon and Apple already command, I just don't see a new player emerging onto the scene anytime soon. They're pretty much dead on arrival if they don't already have a load of publishers on board, or can piggyback onto an existing store (Google Play Books, maybe?).

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Cactus Chef

So for your average consumer, if they've already got a tablet, the only compelling reasons they have to switch to a dedicated e-ink reader would be:

1. They want a reading device larger than their phone but more portable than the average 8-10" tablet
2. They want to read late at night without the tablet backlight keeping them awake

3. They want a device that doesn't distract with notifications from other apps.
4. They want a device that will last weeks without needing a recharge.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

3. They want a device that doesn't distract with notifications from other apps.
4. They want a device that will last weeks without needing a recharge.

This! When I read "An e-ink device reads books really well, and that's about it." it sounded like a pejorative, when to me it's the whole point of e-ink readers. Paper books are also single purpose devices exceptionally well suited to performing just one task, and the market for those sadly limited monofunctional devices doesn't seem to be drying up.

I would add to the above list

5. Reading is the user's primary recreation.

I cannot even imagine having read ~420 books this calendar year on my tablet. I almost never read at night, but even in the day time, the idea of that much reading on a bright, backlight LCD screen (or the OLED screen of my phone) gives me mightmares.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Cactus Chef

It will be difficult to decouple hardware from marketplace, as it's already an increasingly specialized market for dedicated e-ink devices.

An e-ink device reads books really well, and that's about it. Some can also read Pocket articles. Larger ones might be able to read PDFs or black-and-white comics comfortably, and a subset of those have stylus support, but that's about it.

Meanwhile your average ios/Android tablet can:

• read books
• read color comics
• watch videos
• access specialized apps to read certain things (i.e. Libby, Wikipedia, etc)
• browse the internet

Given how much of the market Amazon and Apple already command, I just don't see a new player emerging onto the scene anytime soon. They're pretty much dead on arrival if they don't already have a load of publishers on board, or can piggyback onto an existing store (Google Play Books, maybe?).

Totally false comparison on eink and tablets. The smart phone, PDA and tablet existed before dedicated eink ereader (first was Sony in 2005 and very grey). A ereader is a dedicated appliance like a fridge, kettle and players like cassette, VHS, gramophone (phonograph is technically cylinders). Even most Satellite set-boxes or DVD/BD players if they have extra features, they do them badly compared to a Tablet or Laptop, but a tablet or laptop is useless for satellite TV and few laptops can now play discs. Even smart TVs are worse than TV + laptop (or tablet) for apps or YouTube.

Any new Player relying on Google PlayStore eBooks is dead on arrival. Nearly everyone else sells more ebooks.
There is a huge issue with paying Google. I found it hard to remove paypal from Google. You can't do it in the Playstore App. You need to use a browser and also contact Paypal customer service.
So I no longer buy anything from the Playstore. Maybe a supermarket Google Playstore gift card might work. I don't recommend using your Debit or Credit card with Google.

So for your average consumer, if they've already got a tablet, the only compelling reasons they have to switch to a dedicated e-ink reader would be:

1. They want a reading device larger than their phone but more portable than the average 8-10" tablet
2. They want to read late at night without the tablet backlight keeping them awake

1: May be true.
2: A decent tablet with brightness correctly adjusted won't keep you awake. An eink with too bright frontlight will. I use a bedside lamp.

3: Few apps on iOS or Android are as good as Kobo or even Kindle eink for Library
4: For about 8 years the eink is as good as paper to read on now.
5: Battery life. The Sage is poor battery life for an ereader but beats any tablet or phone hollow and can charge fully in about 40 minutes (45 if totally flat). I have a 2m cable so I can read while charging. Forget using any device while so called wireless charging.
6: Most apps are rubbish for Calibre integration. You need Calibre to manage, convert and clean PD ebooks, the best reason to get an ereader.
7: An eink is an alternative to paper. A tablet or phone isn't. Sony even marketed the larger eink devices as Digital Paper. I make ebooks from webpages via LO Writer and Calibre. Also proof manuscripts on eink.
8: Most apps are poor for dictionaries or annotations (Kobo is best for export annotations to PC, but a Kindle works).
9: Many apps are poor at doing CSS or embedded fonts. Kindle, Kobo and most other eink eReaders are fine.
10: The dedicated ereader is good for younger kids. So much so that there have been LCD based ereaders.
11: A tablet/phone needs the internet and constant updates. If you never update an ereader it still works with new ebooks. At most you only need the Internet once to register and in some cases not even that. My grandchildren's ereaders don't even have their home WiFi passwords. Adults download any bought or PD ebooks to laptop and transfer.
12: You do not need a "kids mode" / "Parental controls" on an ereader.

[leebase]

[QUOTE=Quoth;4270005]Hilarious. Frying pan and Fire.
Amazon has 92% of English language ebook market.
Apple for iPhone and iPad is a greedy 90% profit margin megacorp, one of the largest.]

Correct, and it was going to take an Apple-esque company to give Amazon competition. Doesn't matter if you personally like Apple's products or would use them.

Did the price of ebooks go down after Apple was smacked down by the courts?

Did competition flourish?

Do book creators have more or less leverage in their dealings with the tech companies?

Even if you hate BOTH Amazon and Apple....having two giant competing companies would give authors/publishers leverage. As it is now....you can't defy Amazon and make money in ebooks.

Amazon was and is the threat to a healthy competitive ebook marketplace.

[Quoth]

I've had Smartphones since 2000 and tablets since 2005. I have a PDA, 4.3″ to 6″ smartphones, various tablets up to 10″ and one spare 12.1″ laptop that converts to a tablet with wacom. I developed a 4G smartphone in 2007 which ran Debian and by 2008 a choice of traditional QT GUI, Ice Window Manager and Zune-like QT phone edition. It had Thunderbird, Firefox, VLC, USB-A host, micro-USB slave, separate ear, mic and line 3.5mm jacks and SD-Card slot. So I know what I'm writing about.

Even if there was an eink like panel with 300 dpi true colour (colour eink is about 4000 shades and lower resolution) and able to do video there would still be a market for a dedicated ereader. IMO Sony made a mistake switching to Android for the T1. Android is a bad fit for ereaders and pointless without the Playstore. I have an Android eink with Playstore and it's only used for the Bolinda Borrowbox Irish Library app. Though a 7.8″ 300 dpi with and SD Card slot, 3.5mm jack and BT it is the worst to use ereader. Even the Kindle KK3 (167 dpi, 6″, no touch) is better simply to read ebooks.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Cactus Chef

Given how much of the market Amazon and Apple already command, I just don't see a new player emerging onto the scene anytime soon. They're pretty much dead on arrival if they don't already have a load of publishers on board, or can piggyback onto an existing store (Google Play Books, maybe?).

The platforms that Apple and Google command - provide something like 5 Billion people the chance to read books from anyone that can make an app.

I read my Kindle books on devices made by Apple and Google.

It is only in the eInk world that a device is all but captive to the store the device maker tailors it to.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by leebase

The platforms that Apple and Google command - provide something like 5 Billion people the chance to read books from anyone that can make an app.

I read my Kindle books on devices made by Apple and Google.

It is only in the eInk world that a device is all but captive to the store the device maker tailors it to.

All but captive to the what now? Just this past week alone I've loaded onto my kobo a book from Amazon, a book from Smashwords, books from two different public libraries, stories from Patreon authors, an indie SF magazine...

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by leebase

Correct, and it was going to take an Apple-esque company to give Amazon competition. Doesn't matter if you personally like Apple's products or would use them.

Did the price of ebooks go down after Apple was smacked down by the courts?

Did competition flourish?

Do book creators have more or less leverage in their dealings with the tech companies?

No. The price of ebooks on non-Apple sites has hardly changed. There is even less competition now. No, book creators have no more leverage in their dealings with the tech companies?

Originally Posted by leebase

Even if you hate BOTH Amazon and Apple....having two giant competing companies would give authors/publishers leverage. As it is now....you can't defy Amazon and make money in ebooks.

Apple is a premium seller of phones, watches and tablets. They are nearly irrelevant as a bookseller. Oddly so is Google. Apple doesn't do an ereader and if they did it would only work with Apple Books, would be hard to put PD titles on and Annotations would only be exportable via an Apple program (forget Linux) or Apple Cloud. It would also be the most expensive.

Originally Posted by leebase

Amazon was and is the threat to a healthy competitive ebook marketplace.

True, but Apple isn't even in the same market. Cf even Amazon Fire, Apple iPad, vs Android. Amazon did do a phone but it died. Apple and Amazon are not competitors.
Since before even 2007 when they released the Kindle. Apple and Google, for different reasons, will have zero effect on Amazon paper and ebook dominance. I think in USA online sales Amazon has 80% of the market of paper books.

[John F]

[QUOTE=leebase;4270281...

It is only in the eInk world that a device is all but captive to the store the device maker tailors it to.[/QUOTE]
I guess it depends on your definition of "all but". Many people have eink devices and read from different vendors.

[JSWolf]

I've disliked iBooks (now Books) since I've tried it. It's unpleasant on an iPad and an abomination on an iPhone.