Amazon pursuing me for buying US books outside of USA

[BVLarson]

As Brian was saying above, this really isn't Amazon's fault. They are contractually obligated to prevent book sales out of a given geographic area. This is all in the workings of contracts that are more or less antiquated concepts from the big six publishers. But they really can't fix it easily, as the contracts they wrote with the authors, often decades ago, restrict foreign rights. This was to protect the author in the old days from other people getting their books without paying a royalty. There was no concept of the modern ebook age at that point, especially if you fly overseas often as I used to do, a real pain.

As a side note: all my books are DRM free and readable anywhere on anything, some are free on my website as well...

[ATimson]

Originally Posted by pietvo

Or is there a law that says that the sale of an ebook is in the location of the buyer?

Certainly local government wants the buyer's location to be the sale - ebook or print - so they get a second dip at the buyer's wallet via sales tax.

At least in the US, print books manage to be exempt from publisher interference re: the buyer's location thanks to the doctrine of first sale; however, that generally isn't considered to apply to ebooks, hence the publishers sticking their nose in.

[Pushka]

Or maybe they are really just being seen to be doing something when in fact they may never freeze anyones account. Perhaps sending a book to something other than a kindle (so amazon have never received money for the device) is also a flag. And not everyone gets those emails so there is some kind of selective process happening here.

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by BVLarson

As Brian was saying above, this really isn't Amazon's fault. They are contractually obligated to prevent book sales out of a given geographic area. This is all in the workings of contracts that are more or less antiquated concepts from the big six publishers. But they really can't fix it easily, as the contracts they wrote with the authors, often decades ago, restrict foreign rights. This was to protect the author in the old days from other people getting their books without paying a royalty. There was no concept of the modern ebook age at that point, especially if you fly overseas often as I used to do, a real pain.

As a side note: all my books are DRM free and readable anywhere on anything, some are free on my website as well...

You said they can't fix it "easily". They can fix it though, apple negotiated the whole music biz out of drm, and amazon can't negotiate a few rudimentary international ebook laws?

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by harryE123

You said they can't fix it "easily". They can fix it though, apple negotiated the whole music biz out of drm, and amazon can't negotiate a few rudimentary international ebook laws?

Do you mean they can negotiate easily with the whole publishing biz AND all the countries where the laws apply? Yes, piece of cake

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Do you mean they can negotiate easily with the whole publishing biz AND all the countries where the laws apply? Yes, piece of cake

Music DRM was a piece of cake by comparison. Half a dozen companies, who held world-wide rights to their products. Book publishing is a minefield by comparison.

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Do you mean they can negotiate easily with the whole publishing biz AND all the countries where the laws apply? Yes, piece of cake

Terisa next time you are trying to be sarcastic, you might as well not misquote me. I never said easily. They 've figured it out pretty easily how to sell books in print globally, go through customs hassle free, etc. etc. That was even harder than the ebook story.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Music DRM was a piece of cake by comparison. Half a dozen companies, who held world-wide rights to their products. Book publishing is a minefield by comparison.

Yes sure it was a piece of cake that's why it was beyond belief back then by the press and the stakeholders that music would ever be drm free. That's why everyone and their brother was developing drm standards, including tec giant microsoft.

Excuse me but I can have any book sent over to me from amazon globally but somehow I don't have the same righ to download globally? How did they overcome the minefield of customs, taxes, global trade rules of selling print books worldwide and they can't do so in ebooks?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by harryE123

Excuse me but I can have any book sent over to me from amazon globally but somehow I don't have the same righ to download globally? How did they overcome the minefield of customs, taxes, global trade rules of selling print books worldwide and they can't do so in ebooks?

This question has been addressed at length in previous discussion threads. Probably best to read those, rather than re-hash it all over again.

[harryE123]

I am not a forum archivist so I must have missed it.

[HarryT]

OK. The "edited highlights" version:

In most cases, a publisher buys the rights to sell a book in a particular country or region; eg many books have separate UK and US rights sold, for example. Under the terms of their contract, the publisher can only sell to retailers and customers in their region.

When you buy a book mail-order, you are considered (legally, I mean) to be buying it from the shop, no matter where you live. Thus Amazon UK can sell you books with UK only rights, even if you don't live in the UK, because the point of sale is considered to be Amazon UK themselves, in the UK.

With eBooks, as previously discussed, for whatever legal reason there might be (and we all agree that it's silly, but it is apparently legally binding) the point of sale is considered to be the customer's location, so an eBookstore in the UK cannot sell you an eBook that they have UK only right to unless you live in the UK.

Yes, it's silly. But that's the way it is.

[Kumabjorn]

Reading this thread I get the impression that you won't be able to buy e-books from Amazon if you are located outside the US.

I ordered my Kindle 2 a few days ago, and expect it to arrive here in Sweden around Thursday, so in order to prepare myself I have been lurking here. Upon reading this thread I'm almost beginning to regret making the purchase. Will Amazon refuse to sell me e-books just because I'm a Swedish citizen? (having bought books from Amazon since back in the 80's I find it kind of insulting)

[harryE123]

Originally Posted by HarryT

OK. The "edited highlights" version:

In most cases, a publisher buys the rights to sell a book in a particular country or region; eg many books have separate UK and US rights sold, for example. Under the terms of their contract, the publisher can only sell to retailers and customers in their region.

When you buy a book mail-order, you are considered (legally, I mean) to be buying it from the shop, no matter where you live. Thus Amazon UK can sell you books with UK only rights, even if you don't live in the UK, because the point of sale is considered to be Amazon UK themselves, in the UK.

With eBooks, as previously discussed, for whatever legal reason there might be (and we all agree that it's silly, but it is apparently legally binding) the point of sale is considered to be the customer's location, so an eBookstore in the UK cannot sell you an eBook that they have UK only right to unless you live in the UK.

Yes, it's silly. But that's the way it is.

Ok, thanks for the lowdown.

Well, this has to change, they overcame the hurdle easily with mail order, shouldn't be so hard to push for new legislature with this. God knows they have the money to do it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Reading this thread I get the impression that you won't be able to buy e-books from Amazon if you are located outside the US.

I ordered my Kindle 2 a few days ago, and expect it to arrive here in Sweden around Thursday, so in order to prepare myself I have been lurking here. Upon reading this thread I'm almost beginning to regret making the purchase. Will Amazon refuse to sell me e-books just because I'm a Swedish citizen? (having bought books from Amazon since back in the 80's I find it kind of insulting)

No, that's certainly not true. There will be some books that you can't buy, but the overwhelming majority you can. You'll certainly have enough to read - don't worry .

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

With eBooks, as previously discussed, for whatever legal reason there might be (and we all agree that it's silly, but it is apparently legally binding) the point of sale is considered to be the customer's location, so an eBookstore in the UK cannot sell you an eBook that they have UK only right to unless you live in the UK.

Yes, it's silly. But that's the way it is.

I have always thought that the reason was taxes or custom and the rational thing then is to have the buyers location being the important thing. So what will happen if people complain about the difference is probably that they change what holds for paper book instead...

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, that's certainly not true. There will be some books that you can't buy, but the overwhelming majority you can. You'll certainly have enough to read - don't worry .

Pheeww, that is a relief.
Thank you for relieving my worries, ohh and the prompt reply.

My next quest is to figure out what DRM means.