Unutterably Silly FIFA WC - vote and get dressed!

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by omk3

Fascinating, maybe. But mostly worrying. I find football interesting and entertaining, but the celebrations and accompanying pride is totally out of proportion. It's just a sport, not a matter of ethnic pride. I actually shuddered at the sight of so many flags out on the streets. But anyway...

yes, to be honest i agree with that too. that's the "odd" bit for me. it's hard to imagine that people could be as euphoric about winning a football game as over the victorious end of a horrible, gruesome, long war. yet, they were...

[yvanleterrible]

I don't really care who wins. I like a good quality game and the world cup usually has a few. I'm waiting for those to happen...still...

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

yes, to be honest i agree with that too. that's the "odd" bit for me. it's hard to imagine that people could be as euphoric about winning a football game as over the victorious end of a horrible, gruesome, long war. yet, they were...

I often think it's a tribal thing. Your tribe (or team) has just publicly defeated an opposing tribe. Either channeled violence/energy release/tension release, or stylised/ritualised warfare. I can kinda understand that.

What I find much harder to understand is why this still persists when players move from club to club, country to country; and even play for a league-type team in one country but in things like the WC play for a completely different country (the Serbian who scored the goal in their match against Germany also plays for Liverpool, according to several Liverpool supporters at work). I mean, I understand it in commodity and earnings terms, but with all that movement I don't understand what the fans are supporting.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

I often think it's a tribal thing. Your tribe (or team) has just publicly defeated an opposing tribe. Either channeled violence/energy release/tension release, or stylised/ritualised warfare. I can kinda understand that.

that does make sense in an abstract, intellectual way, but i guess i just don't have that tribal instinct. or maybe i do, but it has different catalysts.

What I find much harder to understand is why this still persists when players move from club to club, country to country; and even play for a league-type team in one country but in things like the WC play for a completely different country (the Serbian who scored the goal in their match against Germany also plays for Liverpool, according to several Liverpool supporters at work). I mean, I understand it in commodity and earnings terms, but with all that movement I don't understand what the fans are supporting.

i didn't know about that, and now i'm even more baffled by the whole phenomenon, to be honest.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

that does make sense in an abstract, intellectual way, but i guess i just don't have that tribal instinct. or maybe i do, but it has different catalysts.

It's certainly an intellectual thing for me, as it's not something I've ever participated in, or had the urge to participate in. One reason being the thought of being in that many people acting with one intent scares me silly!

i didn't know about that, and now i'm even more baffled by the whole phenomenon, to be honest.

I've tried to get some of the guys at work to explain it, and they can't. It usually ends up being "but it's still <club>!" with the slightly fervent and glazed expression of a cultist. OK - I'm being unfair on them a bit. There's something I clearly don't understand, and I'd actually like to understand it.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by hidari

I support the Sapporo team Consodole who is unfortunately in J2 the second division.

Don't you have to harakiri, or at least to shave your mustacchio when this happens?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

I've tried to get some of the guys at work to explain it, and they can't. It usually ends up being "but it's still <club>!" with the slightly fervent and glazed expression of a cultist. OK - I'm being unfair on them a bit. There's something I clearly don't understand, and I'd actually like to understand it.

In sports you cheer for a team mainly, not the particularly players.

At least not in the era of free agency with players moving around and it being very rare for players to stay with one team. College sports have always been that way since players can only play four years.

Reasons for following a particular team can be varied. It can be the local team in the city or state you live (or country in the World Cup case) etc. Or it can be more random reasons.

For instance, I'm a huge fan of West Virginia University football and basketball as I grew up an hour from campus and did my undergrad there.

With pro sport, there are no pro teams in the state of WV so I have more random reasons for getting behind the teams I support.

Baseball I root for the Atlanta Braves as every game of there's was on TBS (cable channel for those not in the US and not aware of what it is) and for several years those where the only baseball games we got on our very limited cable plan.

NFL football I root for the Oakland Raiders. Loved the uniforms/logo and they had a few former WVU stars on their roster when I was young which really got me into them.

NBA basketball I follow the Orlando Magic, got into them when Shaquille O'neal and Penny Hardaway played there and stuck with the team after they left.


So at the end of the day it's really just a matter of loving sports and having various reasons for getting behind a team--and most people will stick with those teams even after players move around.

For your World Cup example, people are going to root for their home countries most of the time. Some will also root for the countries their favorite pro team players play for--as long as they're not playing their home countries of course! Though I know several people who root for other countries besides the US--some because their parents or more distant ancestors immigrated from there, others for no reason I know of.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I don't really care who wins. I like a good quality game and the world cup usually has a few. I'm waiting for those to happen...still...

Of course you do not care. No Quebec and no Canada (I doubt you would more than that in the case).

[beppe]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

yes, to be honest i agree with that too. that's the "odd" bit for me. it's hard to imagine that people could be as euphoric about winning a football game as over the victorious end of a horrible, gruesome, long war. yet, they were...

You should have seen it at the times of the gladiators!

[beppe]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

There's something I clearly don't understand, and I'd actually like to understand it.

It is a passion. You develop it in time, starting since little. It pertains to the belonging factors and effects (1). One cultivates it with fetishes and icons (flags, caps, car stickers, scarfs, neck ties, pins, my wife uses also socks,...) and the nagging with adverse parties makes it stick. We are encouraging little daughter, and she shows already a strong belonging to my team, against theirs (mother, granddad and uncle). Intelligent kid.
The object in itself is irrelevant. It is the belonging that matters. Swift would have liked this so much.

in your case, for the little that I understand of you from your posts, I would say to you to just enjoy seeing it from the outside. You do not miss nothing. But you might have occasions to distinguish yourself if the day after a particularly relevant event you sport a pin, or maybe paint your face like in your avatar. discreetly. :

(1) the belonging just comes after the creature needs in Maslow's pyramid (you know the socio thing, creature, your peers, your boss, yourself as gratifiers).
It is an adolescence process and those are very sweet!

[hidari]

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

I don't really care who wins. I like a good quality game and the world cup usually has a few. I'm waiting for those to happen...still...

Agreed. I just want good footy and less penalty Shoot outs....

[GeoffC]

Ones cats wears pants !!!

Me thinks England were playing tactically, lulling their next opponents into a false sense of something, Slovenia won't know how to play them ..... (one can hope) ....

[dmaul1114]

England's problem is that they have a ton of great players, but no chemistry and don't play as a team.

Anyway, The Netherlands beat Japan 1-0 in the early game today, Ghana and Australia are tied 1-1 at halftime in the 2nd game.

[Ankh]

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

What I find much harder to understand is why this still persists when players move from club to club, country to country; and even play for a league-type team in one country but in things like the WC play for a completely different country (the Serbian who scored the goal in their match against Germany also plays for Liverpool, according to several Liverpool supporters at work). I mean, I understand it in commodity and earnings terms, but with all that movement I don't understand what the fans are supporting.

Milorad Jovanović still plays for Standard de Liège. He signed a deal with Liverpool and will join them on July 1st.

I can not talk about the fans for other nations (I assume it is not much different), but Serbs have no problems with the identification. Although most of their players play in foreign teams, they:
- still have Serbian citizenship
- have been born and raised in Serbia, started their careers in local clubs
- will likely switch several clubs and countries by the end of their careers.
- will likely never play for the selection of another country.

While discussion about the clubs is open, the nation-state and citizenship can hardly be compared with the tribe and tribal mentality. At least there is a specific language and identification with the common culture.

I don't follow soccer in general, but I won't miss a single game that I can catch when it is played by any national selection. The game is different, it is not (only) about the money.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Ones cats wears pants !!!

Me thinks England were playing tactically, lulling their next opponents into a false sense of something, Slovenia won't know how to play them ..... (one can hope) ....

The problem that England have is that Algeria are clearly a "second tier" side (most of their team are French born players, not good enough to make it into the French national team). They are a side whom England would normally expect to brush aside with very little difficulty. A 0-0 draw against such opposition doesn't bode well for a meeting with a side like Germany in the next round.