Why don't people use professional copy editors?

[ASparrow]

Originally Posted by lene1949

It's difficult for one person to catch every error. Ideally the edited copy should go to another editor after the 1st edit and maybe even a third.

This is very true. I had several (3) volunteer copy editors go through my novel (thank you "weedfreak!") and each found errors that the previous copy-editor didn't notice. And after all that, I went through and found another half a dozen or more errors.

There's just no way I can afford to hire a professional editor. The best I can do is offer my next book up to Beta readers on-line when its ready. (And from the looks of the chapter I'm revising this morning, it's going to be a while yet. Egads!)

[lene1949]

Originally Posted by ASparrow

This is very true. I had several (3) volunteer copy editors go through my novel (thank you "weedfreak!") and each found errors that the previous copy-editor didn't notice. And after all that, I went through and found another half a dozen or more errors.

There's just no way I can afford to hire a professional editor. The best I can do is offer my next book up to Beta readers on-line when its ready. (And from the looks of the chapter I'm revising this morning, it's going to be a while yet. Egads!)

Maybe asking here... I'm sure a lot of people would love to read your books, and especially to find errors!

[alvico]

Originally Posted by HistoryWes

I agree with practically everyone here. Cost is THE big factor. I paid for one professional edit and while it was not a horror story like some I've heard, he didn't catch every error and most of the suggestions for revision were things that I didn't want to follow-- specifically he wanted to correct the grammar in the dialog of characters who were supposed to speak incorrect grammar.

The past couple of books I've finished, I've had fellow teachers (eight to ten of them) edit for me and even then errors get missed. And I don't know of anyone who can self edit with real success and that includes simple proofreading. You can read through a familiar line many times without noticing that through should have been though or thought.

I'd certainly be interested in any volunteer editing services. I have the first draft of my latest book done and after the second draft will be looking for help.

Also, for those "I won't stand an error" folks, ebooks add a whole 'nuther problem as errors can creep in to a perfect manuscript during format conversion.

What Wesley said.

I, too, paid for one professional edit. For me, it was money well spent. Not that there were many edits, but they did add that extra polish.

[DArenson]

In my book (figuratively and literally), good copyediting is invaluable.

I read over my work a dozen times at least, and catch things every time. But I still need a good, professional, experienced copyeditor to read my writing before it's published.

After I wrote my novel "Firefly Island", I must have read it a good twenty times. I then had about twenty beta readers read it. After I sold it, an editor at my publishing house (Five Star) worked with me to improve it. Finally, a Five Star copyeditor reviewed it.

I wouldn't have published the novel any sooner.

If you're an indie author, and don't want to pay to hire a professional copyeditor, I suggest at the very least running your novel several times through a good writers' workshop. Then see if you can find a local English or journalism student; maybe they'll copyedit your book for cheap (or free).

I love indie authors and love supporting them. One reason I love ebooks is because it gives indie authors a voice and audience. But indie novels should strive to be of equal -- or superior -- quality to the books from the pro publishers. There's NO excuse for publishing a novel full of typos and grammatical errors. If you're going indie, find a good workshop, find cheap copyeditors, find an English teacher or student to read your book... and revise revise revise.

It's worth it!

Daniel
Firefly Island, a fantasy novel
http://www.DanielArenson.com

[Michael J Hunt]

Good advice, D. Self editing will only take you three-quarters down the course, but it must be editing with a purpose, and this is very difficult after you've read the same passages fifty times. Hence, the manuscript does need fresh eyes - if they can be recruited.

There's a huge difference between editing and proof-reading. The editing process takes into account absolutely everything about a book, from grammar to structure, plot, characterisation, etc etc. It will also cover typos, although that's not the main purpose of an edit.

MJ

[J. Dean]

Basically, it's the cost issue for me, and believe me, I wish it weren't, because it's tiring to edit your own work: I'd dare say that it's more work to edit than it is to write in one sense.

[MargaretLake]

When I first started writing and looking to be published the old fashioned way, there were a lot of editorial scams out there. When the fourth agent referred me to the same editor, I started looking into this guy. Turns out it was a scam. The guy charged up to $5K to edit a book and the agent got a kickback. Some of the authors who used this "editor" found that the book hadn't even been proofed.

I happened to know someone who worked as a proofreader and I paid her $1 a page. Even though she only found a few errors, I felt it was money well spent.

I wouldn't dream of doing the final proofing/edit myself. As many errors as I find, someone else will find more and I don't want that someone else to be the reader.

[Joebill]

I have heard bad things about some manuscript editors.

Several professional authors have demanded that publishers not use them.

As an example: Piers Anthony had big problems over 'But What of Earth ?'

From his take on it, the editors got upset at his depiction of making a hand tools water well. He wrote down how he had made such a well himself and used it in the book. He had it published via Laser Books, who went out of business later on.

I have his annotated version he published years later via Tor Books.

While I don't exactly trust Wikipedia as a source, this article they have is factual from the other sources I have read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piers_Anthony

[lmpreston]

Not having a book edited is bad, really bad. I have an editor and proofreader. Even with all that, your stuff should be really clean before you send it off. The best way to learn to edit is to study then critique others. Also, www.autocrit.com helps once the typos/sentence structure has been shined.

[Michael J Hunt]

Originally Posted by William Campbell

Indeed a fantastic book, a copy of which I own myself and have read more than once. Which reminds me of another great book coming out this month in print (on Smashwords for now). Look for "The Editor's Lexicon: Essential Writing Terms for Novelists," by Sarah Cypher, who just so happens to be that fabulous editor I've been talking about. (Couldn't resist the opportunity to plug a valued colleague.)

William,

I think you might like to read the Review of Sarah's little gem I've just put up on Amazon, both the USA and the UK sites. My opinion isn't hyperbole, but a genuine reflection of the book's worth:

An excellent little book, April 28, 2010
By Michael J. Hunt "mjhunt21" (England) - See all my reviews



This review is from: The Editor's Lexicon: Essential Writing Terms for Novelists (Paperback)
Indispensable - a must for every fiction writer and editor. Literary reference books are often too wordy, with their over-lengthy examples and valuable information difficult to locate. This lexicon is just the opposite: it offers all the principle terminology in alphabetical order under five useful categories - Premiss, Theme, Voice, Plot, Character and Style - and is cleverly designed for easy reference.

For writers, especially newbies, this little book will almost certainly de-mystify the often cryptic comments made by publishers in those maddeningly brief rejection letters; for editors it makes for a very handy reference to check out first impressions; for book reviewers it will help prevent errors of judgement, and for editors it will sit well alongside their more comprehensive literary texts. In fact, there's something for everyone here.

I shall be recommending this to the would-be authors in my novel writers' support groups and to all my other writing acquaintances in England, so well done Sarah and Glyd-Evans Press.

Author of Matabele Gold, The African Journals, of Petros Amm and Two Days in Tehran

Also, I hadn't realised that there's a freebie button on Amazon to publicise anything you care to mention - hence my books appearing at the bottom of the review. There are several advantages, that aren't at first obvious, to reviewing books in this way. Firstly, it allows you to keep a record of books you've read, secondly, it gives you practice in reviewing, thirdly, it makes you more aware of what readers look for in books, fourthly, it makes you sensitive to what might be your own short-comings as a writer. Finally, as I mentioned above, you can puff your own books.

MJ

[William Campbell]

Originally Posted by Michael J Hunt

William, I think you might like to read the Review of Sarah's little gem...

Wow. Michael, thank you. Such kind words, and so encouraging for both Sarah and I. It's funny, she had just messaged me earlier today and mentioned how excited she was to get that review. As an author yourself, you know how it feels. Again, thank you, from me and her. I'm glad you found the work to be the little gem I saw it to be from the beginning (why I jumped on the chance to publish it). Thanks again for helping spread the word.

-William

[William Campbell]

I tried to put the book cover in my signature but it didn't seem to work. You know, so others could see the book and follow the link (or not) if they care to. Along with my fiction offering. See if this works...

It worked, then I got the sig on the last and wanted to kill this post but can't figure out how. How does one delete a post?

[Guns4Hire]

Originally Posted by Ea

But why was it cut? Your mention that it was because it could not be published in 1961 suggest it might have political or sexual over- or under-tones that were publically unacceptable to a publisher. As for my own opinion that was not what I meant with regards to something that an editor could help with. An editors job is to support the author to bring forth what is best in them, sø I'm not really sure how this example would work. If Heinlein was cencored it would certainly be the work of the publisher or Heinlein himself.

I wouldn't call it censorship really. It was cut by Robert Heinlein himself. But there were some things in there that the publisher considered too shocking. With everything that was going on here in the 60's the book was pretty risque. Supposedly no publisher would touch it. The publisher originally wanted 70k cut from it but RAH wouldn't go along with that and only cut 60k. I will pass on an article which better explains the cuts that took place. It shows some examples of the cuts and how it changed the structure of what was being said drastically.

http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/w...sstranger.html

I considered the uncut version of SIASL the better version as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land

And here is more about the book.

[WAPatterson]

Cost is the major factor in all of my mistakes.
I simply can't afford a copy editor and I have a problem with editing my own writing. I simply know what I wrote so well I tend to be oblivious to my own simplest mistakes.
That's my bad and I know it.
I've self-published, and I know that bad mistakes can kill an experience, but my main problem was that No One would read my book until I self-published it.
Now, I think I will re-release my book with a disclaimer and an email address to send corrections to so the readers have some input and a way to get a good copy of the finished product.
If I found a copy editor willing to go over my book for free I'd jump at the chance with so fast I'd probably be considered rabid after waiting so many years to have someone read the book.
But to answer the question: Cost is a big factor in a lot of self-published authors choice to skip copy editors. It's not that we don't respect their work, but I can't justify paying someone hundreds of dollars to read my work when I still have to pay rent and feed my family. I could save up for it, true, but then someone always has to have a dentist appointment or something. It just doesn't work out that I have a budget for such things.

[nomesque]

Originally Posted by WAPatterson

But to answer the question: Cost is a big factor in a lot of self-published authors choice to skip copy editors. It's not that we don't respect their work, but I can't justify paying someone hundreds of dollars to read my work when I still have to pay rent and feed my family. I could save up for it, true, but then someone always has to have a dentist appointment or something. It just doesn't work out that I have a budget for such things.

Hey WA - I'd love to hear your thoughts on an epublishing service I'm thinking of starting. Thread here.