A simple question about the new 'agency' model... - Page 3

kennyc · 02-08-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

Sorry, I didn't realize you were a member. Can you point me to the official notification to that effect? I must have missed it. I'm simply going by what the officers told us.

I'm going by what was posted on the website and the emails I received from the secretary.

kennyc · 02-08-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Amazon is a retailer: It is in their best interest to pay as little as possible for the products they sell. Their own self-publishing contract has been analyzed by several authors and is very lopsided against the author. Among other things Amazon has the ability to reduce the sale price to zero, and the author's cut along with it, at a whim.

Amazon and authors have directly opposed interests.

Authors and Macmillan have aligned interests. Both want to make as much money as possible from selling books to booksellers.

It is very much more in Amazon's economic interest to screw authors than it is Macmillan's.

Also, Amazon has a history of using their market clout as a big hammer to force competitors and suppliers to back down and toe the Amazon line: See the lawsuit against the Amazon Bookstore, the Hachette incident, and the requirement that all POD books go through their own printing facility.

Amazon plays rough and always has.

I could say exactly the same about MacMillan. You and I are clearly on different side of this, but the bottom line as has been said above is that Amazon and MacMillan are only in the game for themselves and their ROI to investors. MacMillan has screwed authors for longer than Amazon has been involved. Based on what MacMillan has stated it is my belief that sales will fall due to their actions and piracy will increase.

I will not respond to this merry-go-round again, I've said what I've said too many times already. I'll let history sort it out. But go ahead and hit me with one more round of GO MACMILLAN GO!

jasonkchapman · 02-08-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

I'm going by what was posted on the website and the emails I received from the secretary.

Then you're reading them wrong. Yes, I realize that facts are powerless in the face of things like

Quote:

Riiiiight. That's what they are saying, but....

and other mind reading techniques, but you're wrong.

kennyc · 02-08-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

Then you're reading them wrong. Yes, I realize that facts are powerless in the face of things like

and other mind reading techniques, but you're wrong.

Clearly not.

We'll see how history characterizes it in a few years. My prediction is that we'll have a completely different publishing model more along the lines of what Amazon has begun to put in place and the traditional publishing houses will be fighting each other over scraps of what's left of the paper market.

Take a look at the digital music industry for an indication.

DawnFalcon · 02-08-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrigger

Bingo.

Yes, quite, it's showing precisely why so many authors struggle financially, when they can't even pick up on whose tactics are going to cost them money even in the short term..

And I point out you said you hadn't picked sides. Well, *adds to the list*, your choice.

ondabeach · 02-08-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Friends don't let friends buy DRM-locked eBooks

I love it!

Lemurion · 02-08-2010, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Yes, quite, it's showing precisely why so many authors struggle financially, when they can't even pick up on whose tactics are going to cost them money even in the short term..

And I point out you said you hadn't picked sides. Well, *adds to the list*, your choice.

Amazon's tactics have already cost authors money.

DawnFalcon · 02-08-2010, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Amazon's tactics have already cost authors money.

Oh? Who was the company which demanded a radical shift in the business model in the first place? Hint: Not Amazon.

ondabeach · 02-08-2010, 07:16 PM

I sincerely hope that all the parasites dry up and blow away in the wind. Amazon, McMillan and crew... the lot.

I'd like to think that the "Future Model" for eBook publishing and distribution is already here. www.zuluexpress.com and www.smashwords.com

A total cost to authors of 15% after processing fees of 35 to 40 cents is fair and equitible. Maybe not if you employ hundreds of people but hey, that's their problem.

Only around one percent of books written have ever been published, and of those only around two percent ever made any money for the author. That in itself makes it pretty clear to me that the traditional publishing industry has ALWAYS been culpible. What's more is that their current behaviour makes it painfully clear that these leopards are not about to change their spots.

I do think it's quite amusing though that they're attacking each other with such gusto that they don't even see their own personal "Davids" winding up their slings for the knockout blow.

Lemurion · 02-08-2010, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Oh? Who was the company which demanded a radical shift in the business model in the first place? Hint: Not Amazon.

Amazon removed the buy buttons. That cost the authors money. Macmillan has not made any changes as yet.

Whether Macmillan's agency idea is a good one or not has no bearing on the fact that Amazon's action hurt authors.

delphidb96 · 02-08-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondabeach

I love it!

Yep. It fits right up there with

"DRM is a haggard, decrepit, crack whore, but the publishers keep on going to her for yet another quick roll in the hay."

Derek

asjogren · 02-08-2010, 07:45 PM

Ondabeach,

I have bought and published on Smashwords. And I have looked at ZuluExpress.

I think there is one more process needed for these - an independent "professional" review team. Perhaps the top 3% of sales gets reviewed. And the reviewer puts his real name to the review. And if these reviews can get out to the mainstream media, it could accelerate the transition to a different model.

Perhaps you can talk about your thoughts on rankings and reviews?

DawnFalcon · 02-08-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Whether Macmillan's agency idea is a good one or not has no bearing on the fact that Amazon's action hurt authors.

Sure, if you don't believe in being responsible for the consequences of your actions. Macmillian wanted to change Amazon's business model, and made threats. Macmillian's actions sparked the entire thing, and they're to blame for any harm they caused their own authors thereby.

Lemurion · 02-08-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Sure, if you don't believe in being responsible for the consequences of your actions. Macmillian wanted to change Amazon's business model, and made threats. Macmillian's actions sparked the entire thing, and they're to blame for any harm they caused their own authors thereby.

That argument might be defensible IF Amazon had limited their action to removing the buy buttons from the Kindle editions which the dispute referred to.

Amazon chose to extend the dispute by removing the buy buttons from PAPER books. This was Amazon's action and they are responsible for their own actions - not Macmillan.

Provocation does not absolve someone of responsibility for their own actions. It may explain or even excuse but it does not absolve.

Amazon is responsible for the harm they caused by the action they took.

As to whether Macmillan's agency system will work, that's up to the market to decide.

vaughnmr · 02-08-2010, 08:36 PM

To those authors in this forum who want to support Macmillon and friends, I hope you are in for a ride. I will never support $15 pricing for ebooks, period. I strongly suspect there are a LOT of people who think just like me. You should be trying to work the economic model of "large quantities" not "large prices".

At the beginning of what I see as the current ebook revolution, you are trying to screw your customers, and you ought to think about that one very carefully. You are increasing the cost of bestseller ebooks 50% without any benefits to the customer, no easing of the content sharing with DRM, no changes to the geo location restrictions, no changes to the often terrible format quality. Exactly what are you giving me for the increase in pricing? As a customer, I will pay you in kind for what you deliver.

Michael Vaughn (new to ereading 10/1/09)

02-08-2010, 07:16 PM	#39
ondabeach Groupie Posts: 193 Karma: 192 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Vanuatu Device: HTC touch Diamond, Ipaq 3115	I sincerely hope that all the parasites dry up and blow away in the wind. Amazon, McMillan and crew... the lot. I'd like to think that the "Future Model" for eBook publishing and distribution is already here. www.zuluexpress.com and www.smashwords.com A total cost to authors of 15% after processing fees of 35 to 40 cents is fair and equitible. Maybe not if you employ hundreds of people but hey, that's their problem. Only around one percent of books written have ever been published, and of those only around two percent ever made any money for the author. That in itself makes it pretty clear to me that the traditional publishing industry has ALWAYS been culpible. What's more is that their current behaviour makes it painfully clear that these leopards are not about to change their spots. I do think it's quite amusing though that they're attacking each other with such gusto that they don't even see their own personal "Davids" winding up their slings for the knockout blow. Last edited by ondabeach; 02-08-2010 at 07:19 PM. Reason: typo

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02-08-2010, 07:45 PM	#42
asjogren Addict Posts: 266 Karma: 1378 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ	Ondabeach, I have bought and published on Smashwords. And I have looked at ZuluExpress. I think there is one more process needed for these - an independent "professional" review team. Perhaps the top 3% of sales gets reviewed. And the reviewer puts his real name to the review. And if these reviews can get out to the mainstream media, it could accelerate the transition to a different model. Perhaps you can talk about your thoughts on rankings and reviews?

02-08-2010, 08:36 PM	#45
vaughnmr Ebook Reader Posts: 605 Karma: 3205128 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View	To those authors in this forum who want to support Macmillon and friends, I hope you are in for a ride. I will never support $15 pricing for ebooks, period. I strongly suspect there are a LOT of people who think just like me. You should be trying to work the economic model of "large quantities" not "large prices". At the beginning of what I see as the current ebook revolution, you are trying to screw your customers, and you ought to think about that one very carefully. You are increasing the cost of bestseller ebooks 50% without any benefits to the customer, no easing of the content sharing with DRM, no changes to the geo location restrictions, no changes to the often terrible format quality. Exactly what are you giving me for the increase in pricing? As a customer, I will pay you in kind for what you deliver. Michael Vaughn (new to ereading 10/1/09)