More wood on the fire...

[kjk]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

In related news, torrent sites, usenet, and irc see a surge in users.

Or, they could just decide eBooks are too expensive for them, and, you know, not read eBooks.

If I think a movie is too expensive, I just forego the enjoyment of that particular movie-I don't go find it for free and claim its a political statement. "Damn that Fox studios, James Cameron, and those stupid blue people making tickets so expensive...good thing I can download it and enjoy it anyways...that will show them!" *eats popcorn*

[bwaldron]

Originally Posted by Bremen Cole

If you are being a devils advocate, then the devil needs to take a few ethics, business and economics classes.

[guyanonymous]

Originally Posted by HarryT

What evidence do you have for that?

Sorry - should have my "sarcasm" indicators on...the only evidence is that based on the past for music, movies, and tv. Wait....with the exception of music, movies and tv would be the present.

[Bremen Cole]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Too busy fiddling

..... speaking of which I heard Charlie Danial's had a heart attach this week, hope he's doing well....

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by dsvick

I for one would love to know if this is really the case, is Baen's combination of the free library and webscriptions actually successful? Everyone keeps pointing to them as the bright shining light of how things should be done, but is it really a vialbe model for more than the admittedly niche market Baen is in?

Personally, I fall right into there market, so whether it is successful or not I hope they keep it up.

Well, Baen's model is also to get you going in to buy the physical books of authors you discover with the cheap eBooks. They've said as much in Baen's Universe's editorials. The idea is that they see it as a way to improve the overall bottom line by giving you a way to discover new authors with minimal risk to you. By doing so, you are more likely to buy the full price hadcovers/etc from those authors once they've established themselves as worth it in your mind.

It's a pretty clever selling tactic, and while I've pretty much given up on print books unless it is for the long-term collection, they've gotten me into a corner... there are a couple authors that I read now because of their eBooks and I'm left with no option but to go into the store and start buying Baen printed books if I want to read more from the author.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Bremen Cole

Unfortunately I saw a whole catalog of Baen books on torrent in one download file . If I could have I would have taken them out of there..... there is no good reason for their products to be on torrents, and I urge everyone to not punish the good with the bad!

The problem with your observation is the "The Fifth Imperium" site, which, with Baen's blessing, makes ALL of the Baen titles that have been bundled in various (I think Baen has made 20 different bundled CD releases) CDs available for download free. So if Baen allows for free downloading of multiple CDs worth of ebook titles, who are you to complain if those same CDs find their way to torrent sites???

Of course, I have a problem with current retail and E-ARC titles from Baen finding their way out there as they're not part of those bundled CD titles or Baen's Free Library.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by stustaff

Do you have some evidence to show that baens policy is helping them do better than oooh say Macmillans policy?

if you do then great unfortunately I doubt it's the case.

Hope you like 'eating crow', because Baen has stated numerous times that the various titles in Baen's Free Library and the titles released for free on bundled CDs (all of which can be freely copied and given away) have drawn in new customers and have acted as positive marketing tools for their dead-tree titles.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by stustaff

But to be devild advocate for a second all baen are doing is selling less popular products cheaper. and with no drm to try and differentiate them in a market where they sell a 'on paper' anyway a less valuable product.

Why should Baen charge anymore than a couple of Dollars for an Ebook?? after all there are no printing or advertising or storage costs etc, surely $2 would be more reasonable.

First, that you don't *like* the titles and authors in the Baen's stable does *NOT* mean these titles are 'less valuable'.

Second, after the sales of various titles reach a certain minimum, (there probably are other criteria affecting the move) they can be moved to Baen's Free Library, where they are available in most major ebook formats for immediate, no-DRM, *NO-COST* download. There they reside and act as marketing tools for newer books by the authors.

I *get* that you don't like Baen and that you don't like their marketing model, but don't presume to claim that your dislike means it doesn't work!

Derek

[tompe]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

Hope you like 'eating crow', because Baen has stated numerous times that the various titles in Baen's Free Library and the titles released for free on bundled CDs (all of which can be freely copied and given away) have drawn in new customers and have acted as positive marketing tools for their dead-tree titles.

Derek

Yes, it has an effect. The question was if they succeeded _better_ than Macmillan?

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, it has an effect. The question was if they succeeded _better_ than Macmillan?

They haven't managed to piss me off to the point that I'll boycott dead-tree and ebook purchases from them in favor of dark-net downloads - so I guess that makes them a success, yes?

Derek

[guyanonymous]

How do you define success?

Making the most money? Making a comfortable living? Earning respect or resentment from your authors/customers? Pursuing and even helping create a new way of doing things or clinging to an old, outmoded method?

If publishers are having such a hard time making a go of it, perhaps they should change how they do things. If you keep doing something and don't get the desired result, perhaps you should change how you do things.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

Well, Baen's model is also to get you going in to buy the physical books of authors you discover with the cheap eBooks. They've said as much in Baen's Universe's editorials. The idea is that they see it as a way to improve the overall bottom line by giving you a way to discover new authors with minimal risk to you. By doing so, you are more likely to buy the full price hadcovers/etc from those authors once they've established themselves as worth it in your mind.

Right, I knew why they were doing it - I was just wondering if it was working out for them

I'm left with no option but to go into the store and start buying Baen printed books if I want to read more from the author...

You should be able to get the Ebook of everything as well, in fact through webscriptions you can get the eBook before the pBook (if they offer it in a webscription).

Originally Posted by delphidb96

... because Baen has stated numerous times that the various titles in Baen's Free Library and the titles released for free on bundled CDs (all of which can be freely copied and given away) have drawn in new customers and have acted as positive marketing tools for their dead-tree titles...

Thanks for the info Derek - I'm glad it is working out for them. They got me - I'll be getting the webscription month for all the authors new releases that I've discovered via the free library.

To be honest though I would have to wonder if that model would work well for others. I think part of the success of the Baen model is that they are a niche and all of the titles are somewhat related in genre. It may not work so well for larger publishers with a broader range of books, although some of their imprints (like Tor) it may work quite well for.

[guyanonymous]

Now if only those authors would write faster! I want more of my 1632 universe!

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

Now if only those authors would write faster! I want more of my 1632 universe!

And the Honorverse!!

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

Well, Baen's model is also to get you going in to buy the physical books of authors you discover with the cheap eBooks. They've said as much in Baen's Universe's editorials. The idea is that they see it as a way to improve the overall bottom line by giving you a way to discover new authors with minimal risk to you. By doing so, you are more likely to buy the full price hadcovers/etc from those authors once they've established themselves as worth it in your mind.

It's a pretty clever selling tactic, and while I've pretty much given up on print books unless it is for the long-term collection, they've gotten me into a corner... there are a couple authors that I read now because of their eBooks and I'm left with no option but to go into the store and start buying Baen printed books if I want to read more from the author.

Baen considers their e-book titles to be the book equivalent of crack cocaine. Give it away at first and then once the customer is hooked, make 'em pay a bit for it, but charge more for 'the good stuff' - dead-tree books!

Derek