How to get Amazon to stop accepting returned Kindle ebooks - Page 4

rhadin · 12-16-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sassanik

30 books seems high to me. Even Bricks and Motar bookstores very rarely accept book returns. The main reason being printing problems and missing pages.

I have bought more than 350 ebooks since I received my Sony 505 as a Christmas gift soon-to-be 3 Christmases ago and have not returned any of them. But then I am more tolerant of quality lapses in ebooks than I am in pbooks.

I am more tolerant because the price is significantly lower and because I consider ebooks as read-once toss-away books (and that's because I buy only fiction ebooks). If the story is good, I can struggle through less-than-stellar formatting or editing. If the story isn't good, well, no one told me to buy the darn thing so I just count it a loss and am sure never to buy from that author again. Of course, it helps that I won't spend more than $6 on an ebook and on average I spend less than $3.

As for bookstores taking returns, B&N's policy is 14 days with receipt for refund; without a receipt, you get store credit. Occasionally I have bought the wrong book for my wife at B&N and have taken it back and gotten a refund without a problem.

HarryT · 12-16-2009, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

As for bookstores taking returns, B&N's policy is 14 days with receipt for refund; without a receipt, you get store credit. Occasionally I have bought the wrong book for my wife at B&N and have taken it back and gotten a refund without a problem.

Waterstones here in the UK have very generous returns policies, too.

dmcounts · 12-16-2009, 09:23 AM

What does Amazon do with these used returned ebooks?

I haven't noticed any used ebooks for sale yet?

Surely they don't try to pass them off as new.

HarryT · 12-16-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcounts

What does Amazon do with these used returned ebooks?

I haven't noticed any used ebooks for sale yet?

Surely they don't try to pass them off as new.

Do with them? I don't understand what you mean, I'm afraid. There's no "product" to return, hence the question really has no relevence.

curtw · 12-16-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcounts

What does Amazon do with these used returned ebooks?

I haven't noticed any used ebooks for sale yet?

Surely they don't try to pass them off as new.

Good one! HarryT, I think that whooshing sound you hear is the joke going over your head.

I don't know about Amazon, but the one book I "returned" to Fictionwise because of formatting issues is still on my bookshelf. They let me keep the book, and just credited the purchase price back to my account so I could buy another.

andrys · 12-16-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

As for bookstores taking returns, B&N's policy is 14 days with receipt for refund; without a receipt, you get store credit. Occasionally I have bought the wrong book for my wife at B&N and have taken it back and gotten a refund without a problem.

As for e-books, B&N's policy for the Nook books is no returns. Period. I read this on their forum.

kennyc · 12-16-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmcounts

What does Amazon do with these used returned ebooks?

I haven't noticed any used ebooks for sale yet?

Surely they don't try to pass them off as new.

DawnFalcon · 12-16-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ea

Unless something is defective, the return of a purchase is not a right

Incorrect, in the UK. The distance selling regulations apply.
Ebooks are "goods" - and they are not classified as audio or video recordings, or software.

Amazon are breaching them by not supplying format information pre-sale, and this means currently there is a 3 month+7 day period for returns, legally (it'd be 7 days if they provided said information).

The law probably needs changing because there's no real reason for them to be handled different from audio and video recordings, but that is the law at present.

John Bailey · 12-16-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Incorrect, in the UK. The distance selling regulations apply.
Ebooks are "goods" - and they are not classified as audio or video recordings, or software.

Isn't this a UK or possibly EU only regulation? In which case, as the books would be imported from America, they would not necessarily be covered. Neither for that matter, would the warranty on a Kindle. You are dealing with amazon.com, not amazon.co.uk

As far as I'm aware, warranties are valid throughout the EU, but at the vendor's discretion outside the EU.

Personally I have used the 7 day cooling off period a few times, but only for genuine incompatibility or sub standard goods. Not because I didn't like something. And I buy practically everything but food on the net.

Ea · 12-16-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Incorrect, in the UK. The distance selling regulations apply.
Ebooks are "goods" - and they are not classified as audio or video recordings, or software.

Amazon are breaching them by not supplying format information pre-sale, and this means currently there is a 3 month+7 day period for returns, legally (it'd be 7 days if they provided said information).

The law probably needs changing because there's no real reason for them to be handled different from audio and video recordings, but that is the law at present.

Sorry, yes I forgot about that - I didn't know that ebooks were considered physical goods. How long is the cancellation period for physical goods bought via 'mail-order' in Britain? In Denmark it's 14 days - but you make it sound like it's only 7 days in Britain? I thought it was EU wide. And yes, I did look at the PDF you link to, but I don't want to spend half an hour reading it all

DawnFalcon · 12-16-2009, 11:38 AM

John Bailey - That would of been true before they started selling the Kindle specifically for the UK, John, Even though they're selling from their US site, they can't dodge the DSR's that way, since they have a commercial presence as a company in an EEA country.

Ea - There is no "physical" requirement in "goods", under UK law - things are either a good or a service, and it depends on how they're sold rather than anything else. And yes, it's 7 days if the proper information is provided. I believe that's the EU minimum.

Daithi · 12-16-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtw

I don't know about Amazon, but the one book I "returned" to Fictionwise because of formatting issues is still on my bookshelf. They let me keep the book, and just credited the purchase price back to my account so I could buy another.

If you return a book, Amazon removes the book when you connect through Whispernet.

CCDMan · 12-16-2009, 12:02 PM

Return Books??! I have never returned even ONE book (print or ebook) in the 50 years I have known how to read.

Buy a book and if it is crap, it is YOUR PROBLEM. There is no excuse for returning books unless they are physically defective (unreadable formatting, missing content and such).

If you are in a bookstore looking at paper you can stay and read a bit before buying. For e-books there are reviews and samples. The samples will normally reveal formatting issues as well as quality issues. I agree with Sony's policy and Amazon is over generous IMHO.

I find it very hard to believe that all 30 books in this example had unreadable formatting, missing content, or similar issues. Most likely the reader just did not like the content.

It really pisses me off when individuals expect others (often companies since Hollywood teaches us that ALL companies are evil) to eat the individual's mistakes. Take some responsibility, not everything is "someone else's" fault.

calvin-c · 12-16-2009, 12:22 PM

FWIW I think the number of returns should be counted by orders rather than items. I can see purchasing 30 books incorrectly, as a single order. But purchasing 1 book incorrectly 30 times? No, I can't see doing that-at least not during any reasonable period of time.

For management, deciding how to handle this is a problem-that's why so many 'cheat' by setting an absolute limit, without any other considerations, as it appears Amazon has done. That indicates incompetent (or lazy, which is another word for incompetent) management.

To be done properly, IMO, this should take into account not only the number of orders over which the errors occurred, but also the period of time. I can't see making errors in 30 orders (for products with similar specifications) over anything less than a 10 or 15 year period, unless the ordering process changes significantly during that period. Over a 30 year period I think it's quite likely-a year is plenty of time for me to forget what I did wrong the last time I ordered.

BearMountainBooks · 12-16-2009, 12:26 PM

Can't really blame Amazon for that. The purpose of ebooks isn't really to browse and possibly read several books and only keep the "one" or "ones" you deem the best. The samples and reviews help serve that purpose. A bookstore wouldn't even order in several technical books just so that a person could "maybe" buy one.

12-16-2009, 12:02 PM	#58
CCDMan *** Posts: 335 Karma: 5759 Join Date: Mar 2006 Device: ***	Return Books??! I have never returned even ONE book (print or ebook) in the 50 years I have known how to read. Buy a book and if it is crap, it is YOUR PROBLEM. There is no excuse for returning books unless they are physically defective (unreadable formatting, missing content and such). If you are in a bookstore looking at paper you can stay and read a bit before buying. For e-books there are reviews and samples. The samples will normally reveal formatting issues as well as quality issues. I agree with Sony's policy and Amazon is over generous IMHO. I find it very hard to believe that all 30 books in this example had unreadable formatting, missing content, or similar issues. Most likely the reader just did not like the content. It really pisses me off when individuals expect others (often companies since Hollywood teaches us that ALL companies are evil) to eat the individual's mistakes. Take some responsibility, not everything is "someone else's" fault. Last edited by CCDMan; 12-16-2009 at 12:35 PM.

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12-16-2009, 09:23 AM	#48
dmcounts Enthusiast Posts: 34 Karma: 5140 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Panhandle Device: K2, K3-3G/WIFI	What does Amazon do with these used returned ebooks? I haven't noticed any used ebooks for sale yet? Surely they don't try to pass them off as new.

12-16-2009, 11:38 AM	#56
DawnFalcon Banned Posts: 2,094 Karma: 2682 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: N/A	John Bailey - That would of been true before they started selling the Kindle specifically for the UK, John, Even though they're selling from their US site, they can't dodge the DSR's that way, since they have a commercial presence as a company in an EEA country. Ea - There is no "physical" requirement in "goods", under UK law - things are either a good or a service, and it depends on how they're sold rather than anything else. And yes, it's 7 days if the proper information is provided. I believe that's the EU minimum.

12-16-2009, 12:22 PM	#59
calvin-c Guru Posts: 787 Karma: 1575310 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Moon+ Pro	FWIW I think the number of returns should be counted by orders rather than items. I can see purchasing 30 books incorrectly, as a single order. But purchasing 1 book incorrectly 30 times? No, I can't see doing that-at least not during any reasonable period of time. For management, deciding how to handle this is a problem-that's why so many 'cheat' by setting an absolute limit, without any other considerations, as it appears Amazon has done. That indicates incompetent (or lazy, which is another word for incompetent) management. To be done properly, IMO, this should take into account not only the number of orders over which the errors occurred, but also the period of time. I can't see making errors in 30 orders (for products with similar specifications) over anything less than a 10 or 15 year period, unless the ordering process changes significantly during that period. Over a 30 year period I think it's quite likely-a year is plenty of time for me to forget what I did wrong the last time I ordered.

12-16-2009, 12:26 PM	#60
BearMountainBooks Maria Schneider Posts: 3,746 Karma: 26439330 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Near Austin, Texas Device: 3g Kindle Keyboard	Can't really blame Amazon for that. The purpose of ebooks isn't really to browse and possibly read several books and only keep the "one" or "ones" you deem the best. The samples and reviews help serve that purpose. A bookstore wouldn't even order in several technical books just so that a person could "maybe" buy one.