Amazon $150k payout for student's lost notes

Patricia · 10-02-2009, 01:06 PM

You may remember that a student sued amazon for removing Orwell's Nineteen Eightyfour from his Kindle, together with his notes, which were needed for a school project.

He's now won $150k from Amazon:

Quote:

A student who sued Amazon for deleting George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four from his Kindle ebook, rendering his notes useless, has won $150,000 along with protection for other Kindle users.

The agreement (pdf), which was spotted by Seattle's TechFlash, effectively prevents Amazon reaching out and deleting or modifying works in future. However, as a negotiated agreement it doesn't carry a legal precedent; and Amazon isn't admitting that it broke the law, or even the terms of service, by deleting the work.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/02/kindle_pay_off/

yekim54 · 10-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patricia

He's now won $150k from Amazon

Jackpot! That ought to cover the cost of a 4-year university education.

brecklundin · 10-02-2009, 01:40 PM

read the article...it gets split between the attorney fees (going to charity) and another un-named person...it is also a settlement not a court decision. This was very much in Amazon's best interests. It probably would have cost Amazon $150k just to prepare the docs for trial let alone all other fees...Bezos did a very smart and thing Amazon could have lost millions if this went to court.

Shaggy · 10-02-2009, 01:46 PM

I find this the most interesting part:

Quote:

The agreement (pdf), which was spotted by Seattle's TechFlash, effectively prevents Amazon reaching out and deleting or modifying works in future. However, as a negotiated agreement it doesn't carry a legal precedent; and Amazon isn't admitting that it broke the law, or even the terms of service, by deleting the work.

Yes, it doesn't set a legal precedent. But, if Amazon ever does this again, you can bet that people will be lining up for their $150K payouts. That gives Amazon a LOT of motivation to avoid this scenario in the future.

Mike L · 10-02-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

But, if Amazon ever does this again, you can bet that people will be lining up for their $150K payouts.

But that doesn't mean they have any hope of getting it. They'd have to show that they suffered a loss of that magnitude. Presumably, that's what the 1984 student managed to do, if everything he needed for his course project was lost; perhaps he failed the course and had to take another year as a result of that.

If (in the unlikely event) Amazon did the same thing again, there'd be no point in suing them if your only financial loss what the cost of buying a legitimate copy of the book so that you could carry on reading it.

rcuadro · 10-02-2009, 03:02 PM

Though I do not condone what Amazon did... it is sad the world that we live in when a lost set of notes can be worth $150k...

tompe · 10-02-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike L

But that doesn't mean they have any hope of getting it. They'd have to show that they suffered a loss of that magnitude. Presumably, that's what the 1984 student managed to do, if everything he needed for his course project was lost; perhaps he failed the course and had to take another year as a result of that.

If (in the unlikely event) Amazon did the same thing again, there'd be no point in suing them if your only financial loss what the cost of buying a legitimate copy of the book so that you could carry on reading it.

Isn't there always a possibility for a punitive part in the damage awarded?

poohbear_nc · 10-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I find this the most interesting part:

Yes, it doesn't set a legal precedent. But, if Amazon ever does this again, you can bet that people will be lining up for their $150K payouts. That gives Amazon a LOT of motivation to avoid this scenario in the future.

And I settled for $30 - I shoulda taken notes!
Maybe you should at least put bookmarks in every book you buy from Amazon?

Shaggy · 10-02-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike L

They'd have to show that they suffered a loss of that magnitude.

Not really. Remember, this never went to trial, so the student didn't have to show any real loss either. Amazon has already set the precedent that they are willing to give payouts when this happens. That's like waving a red cape in front of a bull. If they decided to delete eBooks in a similar manner again, regardless of the frivolity, there are likely to be thousands of such lawsuits. Everyone will be hoping they're the next ones to cash in just like this student did. Whether or not Amazon looses any of the cases, just defending themselves is going to cost them a significant amount of money.

If they ever even think of doing this again, you can bet that their lawyers are going to point to that settlement and tell them that they'd better get their check books out before hitting "delete", probably for WAY more than $150K.

Shaggy · 10-02-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

Isn't there always a possibility for a punitive part in the damage awarded?

Well, first off no damages were awarded since this was a settlement.

However, if it did go to trial, punitive damages are VERY rare in civil law.

rhadin · 10-02-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcuadro

Though I do not condone what Amazon did... it is sad the world that we live in when a lost set of notes can be worth $150k...

Even sadder is that there are people who can see only one side of a dispute. For example, thinking that medical malpractice awards should be limited but doctor incomes should not. Or that it is an infringement on people's freedom to require them to have health insurance but it is not an infringement on their freedom to ban them from buying certain health insurance riders. Or that it is a tax on the middle class to require everyone to carry health insurance, but it is not a tax on the middle class to increase their premiums to cover the costs incurred by the uninsured.

Our whole value system is screwed up and what few values we as a society still do have are only as good as the sound bite.

Shaggy · 10-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcuadro

Though I do not condone what Amazon did... it is sad the world that we live in when a lost set of notes can be worth $150k...

True, but Amazon thinking they could get away with what they did is a pretty sad commentary on our society as well.

300com · 10-02-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcuadro

Though I do not condone what Amazon did... it is sad the world that we live in when a lost set of notes can be worth $150k...

Well i don't think it works exactly that way, if the guys notes were worth $30
there would be no incentive for Amazon to ensure that they don't do it again.
I believe they've so far twice deleted peoples material.

So a bigger fine is needed to actually sway it's business practices.

brecklundin · 10-03-2009, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike L

But that doesn't mean they have any hope of getting it. They'd have to show that they suffered a loss of that magnitude. Presumably, that's what the 1984 student managed to do, if everything he needed for his course project was lost; perhaps he failed the course and had to take another year as a result of that.

If (in the unlikely event) Amazon did the same thing again, there'd be no point in suing them if your only financial loss what the cost of buying a legitimate copy of the book so that you could carry on reading it.

No, we have no way of knowing if student showed any such thing...this was an out of court settlement which means nothing was proved or disproved...it means Amazon saw it to their advantage to settle...it has nothing to do with the student being able to show a damn thing. Even if the student was not able to show damage, it probably STILL was worth the PR for Amazon to settle...that is what this means...

brecklundin · 10-03-2009, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Not really. Remember, this never went to trial, so the student didn't have to show any real loss either. Amazon has already set the precedent that they are willing to give payouts when this happens. That's like waving a red cape in front of a bull. If they decided to delete eBooks in a similar manner again, regardless of the frivolity, there are likely to be thousands of such lawsuits. Everyone will be hoping they're the next ones to cash in just like this student did. Whether or not Amazon looses any of the cases, just defending themselves is going to cost them a significant amount of money.

If they ever even think of doing this again, you can bet that their lawyers are going to point to that settlement and tell them that they'd better get their check books out before hitting "delete", probably for WAY more than $150K.

Exactly...that is what this agreement means...

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10-02-2009, 01:40 PM	#3
brecklundin Banned Posts: 1,906 Karma: 15348 Join Date: Jun 2007 Device: mine	read the article...it gets split between the attorney fees (going to charity) and another un-named person...it is also a settlement not a court decision. This was very much in Amazon's best interests. It probably would have cost Amazon $150k just to prepare the docs for trial let alone all other fees...Bezos did a very smart and thing Amazon could have lost millions if this went to court.

10-02-2009, 03:02 PM	#6
rcuadro Wizard Posts: 1,686 Karma: 874275 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Device: Kindle DX	Though I do not condone what Amazon did... it is sad the world that we live in when a lost set of notes can be worth $150k...