Seriously thoughtful 100W incandescent lightbulbs banned in the EU from 1st Sep

[Sparrow]

What annoys me about the UK government's attitude is that they use the reduction in peoples' carbon footprint to justify building a stonking great runway at Heathrow Airport.

If I'm reducing my carbon footprint, I want it to be for the good of the environment - I don't want my government undoing whatever good is being accomplished. Ironically, it'll probably be greener in the long run for us not to recycle and go low-energy, so the government can't use that as an excuse to increase pollution and make things worse.

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The manufacture or import of 100W incandscent lightbulbs will be banned in the EU from 1st Sept, although shops will still be permitted to sell off their existing stock.

Personally I think that this is a good thing; what do other people think?

Idiotic decision.
It will only drive people to use 2x60W instead of 1x100W.
Someone just cannot help themselves, they think they have a right to make the right decisions for others.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by astra

Idiotic decision.
It will only drive people use 2x60W instead of 1x100W.
Someone just cannot help themselves, they think they have a right to make the right decisions for others.

Unfortunately the current UK govt is very much into nanny-state-ism and big-brother-ism

[BearMountainBooks]

quote:
'florescent-that-look-like-incandescents, ' cost about 10 times as much as ordinary incandescent bulbs, last 15 times longer, and use about 1/10 the energy to operate
end quote

(sorry, I don't know how to do the cool quote box). Anyway, I use today's florescent that go in incandescent sockets. And they do not live up to the 10 times longer or even 5 times longer. But they are definitely more expensive. I don't have to worry so much about the mandatory thing because I'm in the US, but I was pretty annoyed at the first flors that I bought--some lasted a year, some two, but on the higher "wattage" ones, they weren't much better than a regular bulb, yet they cost oodles more.

I still use them quite often and thankfully the price has come down and I hope that the technology improves. My favorite thing about them is that they are cooler--because I am often sitting by a lamp when I read. My face used to actually turn red from the heat from the bulb (my husband would look over and move the lamp--I never knew this until I was married!)

Of course, I'd say, give the people the choice--but build better technology and it's an easy choice!!!

Maria
Sage: Tales from a Magical Kingdom

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

(sorry, I don't know how to do the cool quote box). Anyway, I use today's florescent that go in incandescent sockets. And they do not live up to the 10 times longer or even 5 times longer. But they are definitely more expensive. I don't have to worry so much about the mandatory thing because I'm in the US, but I was pretty annoyed at the first flors that I bought--some lasted a year, some two, but on the higher "wattage" ones, they weren't much better than a regular bulb, yet they cost oodles more.

Given that they use about 5x less electricity, if they cost less than 5x the price of a "normal" lightbulb, and have about the same lifetime, you've still saved money.

Personally I find that they last a heck of a lot longer than incandescent bulbs do.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Halk

Perhaps we should be able to put them in our glass bins? We now have 3 bins in my council area; paper, general waste and glass. I suspect the glass bins are sorted through by hand, so things like small electrical appliances, EE bulbs could go in there too.

Officially you're not allowed due to the mercury.

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i think i read that the energy consumed by appliances in standby mode is the equivalent of the entire production of one nuclear generator. i can't remember the exact details, but that's a lot of wasted energy. when i recently got a new stereo, i discovered to my disgust that you can't shut it off completely with the power button, it just goes to standby. presumably that's how it remembers the radio stations you programme. so now when i'm not using it i unplug it at the wall, and just choose the radio manually.

Yep. If we turned off the video recorder, it would lose all channels (for example, when we had a poweroutage...) We don't have a radio at home, only two electric bedside alarm/radio/clock devices. And I just refuse to turn off the digital decoder because that's our clock!

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The florescents are being pushed over here, too, though not at the point of flatly banning the incandescents. My local electric utility is one of the groups behind them. They're pushing conservation and energy efficiency because they really don't want to build new generating capacity. Doing so is a political nightmare, as everyone knows it's necessary, but no one wants a plant in their area, nor does anyone want to pay the enormous costs. (And for various good reasons, a new plant probably ought to be nuclear, which would add even more fun to the fractious process of getting it built.)

Hmm, now you mention it, I should get a few of those 100W lamps! They're going to build 3! coal energy plants here! And those wind energy mills were turned down because they were bad for the environment (birds...). If you go about 4km eastwards from where they'll be building those plants, you'll see a whole forest of wind mills (across the border...)

Originally Posted by Kostas

Second thougth - there is a real drawback with energy saving bulbs vs. incandescent ones: they cannot be dimmed to get lighting effects!.
Gotta abandon several dimmers I have or find a workaround.
I think that halogen lamps can be dimmed but there's no obvious way to mount them...

They can and are double the price. Haven't found one in our neighbourhood yet though...

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

I think it's a bad idea - LEDs would be a much better replacement. A lot less energy, and sod all heat from them. And a nice, bright white light.

<snip>

Actually, what I'd really like is something that puts out the light of a halogen, and the heat of an LED - I love the light from halogen bulbs, but I'm really not so keen on the heat!

We are looking at replacing those halegen bulbs in our bedroom (which isn't even finished yet) because of that heat... I never knew they would get that hot!

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

I had this same idea about the heat factor, but was quickly corrected by my friend from Panasonic. He tells me that more than 50% of the space inside the new large LED lights will be used for the aluminum 'heat-sink' they require. I was surprised as my LED flashlights seem to put out no heat at all. I have a flashlight here on my desk with 16 LED's in the reflector and it's completely cool even when on for several minutes. My friend says that the LED units required for large area lights put out more heat than current florescents, and require large heat-sinks to keep them from burning out!

Stitchawl

I have a LED lamp, equivalent to a 40W incadescent. Exactly the same size. And it doesn't get hot to the touch at all.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

They're going to build 3! coal energy plants here! And those wind energy mills were turned down because they were bad for the environment (birds...). If you go about 4km eastwards from where they'll be building those plants, you'll see a whole forest of wind mills (across the border...)

Do you mean they say coal energy plants are less harmful for the environment than wind farms?
Omg. Until I traveled to the Netherlands I didn't suspect how widely wind farms are used. Then we went to Austria. The same.
Maybe British like birds more than anyone else in the world?

[Kostas]

Originally Posted by astra

Idiotic decision.
It will only drive people to use 2x60W instead of 1x100W.
Someone just cannot help themselves, they think they have a right to make the right decisions for others.

1) Well it's rather difficult to put 2 60W bulbs in one socket.
2) 60W, 40W, 25W,... incandescent bulbs will be banned too one day or another. I hope so.
3) Let's not generalise. Personnaly, this will not drive me to circumvent the rule.
4) Those who make those decisions have the right (and the knowledge hopefully) to make them because they are appointed by our elected governments to do so (I mean the European Commission). And because almost every Commission's decision is ratified by the European Parliament (elected too).

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by astra

Do you mean they say coal energy plants are less harmful for the environment than wind farms?
Omg. Until I traveled to the Netherlands I didn't suspect how widely wind farms are used. Then we went to Austria. The same.
Maybe British like birds more than anyone else in the world?

Well, with coal plants the birds won't fly themselves to death against those blades...

There are a decent amount of wind mills already there. But they weren't allowed to add more because the electric net couldn't have it and those 3 coal plants were already planned and the birds might kill themselves against the blades... They also wanted a "green plant". Same reason for denial as the wind mills (except for the birds, naturally...)

What I never understood is how they say we, the consumer, should make our carbon footprint smaller. Do you really think it will make a difference if the big companies don't make theirs smaller? If you see the amount of light, in the dark, just to light up a building... Or to keep a shop lighted to discourage thieves... And the street lights that keep burning at full light all through the night on the highways... (Belgium is the worst in that respect)...

[astra]

Originally Posted by Kostas

4) Those who make those decisions have the right (and the knowledge hopefully) to make them because they are appointed by our elected governments to do so (I mean the European Commission). And because almost every Commission's decision is ratified by the European Parliament (elected too).

I wish the UK didn't join this silly EU and kept its identity they worked for ages to build.

[Kostas]

Originally Posted by astra

I wish the UK didn't join this silly EU and kept its identity they worked for ages to build.

It was very obvious from your previous post!

[doreenjoy]

I've been buying high quality compact flourescents for years. I prefer them to incandescents because they don't get hot, and thus are safer in my circa 1908 home.

The high quality flourescents are daylight spectrum, which is more pleasing to my eyes than either the cheap flourescents or incandescent.

All IMO.

I don't support bans in general, but I do trust that the EC is doing their best.

[firebird]

The US hasn't banned incandescents yet, but it just seems like it is a matter of time. I find the wholesale banning of 100W incandescent bulbs to be very sad as people with Macular degeneration or low vision need bright light like this in order to maximize what we can see. Fluorescents just don't seem to cut it. We should have a choice in what we buy.

[volwrath]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Given that they use about 5x less electricity, if they cost less than 5x the price of a "normal" lightbulb, and have about the same lifetime, you've still saved money.

Personally I find that they last a heck of a lot longer than incandescent bulbs do.

Thats really not an apt comparison necessarily. If the bulbs are very expensive and the price of electricity is much less your equations won't work.

Also no one has mentioned power quality. The switching of the power supply in the CFL may cause harmonic issues and wreck havoc on the power grid due to poor power factors

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

And don't forget that turning those lamps on and off lots of times (like in a bathroom) will shorten their lifetime drastically.

Yes, that's been my experience. When I leave a room I turn the light off. That's how my parents raised me. I've used a number of CFLs, and all but one have quit working in a very short time.

In this area the stores have replaced the 100w bulbs with 90w bulbs.