Baen's Eye of the Storm CD is now available

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by NormHart

Oh my, I hope you know what nuclear fire you will draw down from the skies. I have no compunction about being the first.

Have at you, varlet!

You are painting a lot of authors with a rather large brush. I have works by about 100 authors and I only have a fraction of the entire Baen collection. Your criticism seems more aimed at Science Fiction and Swords and Sorcery as a whole rather than just Baen, although I may be mistaken. It is true that Baen Books specializes in "Action" Sci-Fi rather than the more soft Speculative Fiction genre however Webscriptions also carries several other Publishers.

I don't think anyone has ever characterized Marion Zimmer Bradley, Lois McMaster Bujold, Anne McCaffery, or Andre Norton as misogynistic.

(I, personally, take the "cartoonish women with ridiculous busoms" seriously, especially the "bosoms" part. Nothing ridiculous about bosoms.)

I did say it seems and as I said I haven't read enough of Baen's catalogue (Baen.com specifically) to make an overall judgement, but, saying that, Baen.com has a background image of a spaceship exploding, which says a lot to a prospective reader. And most sci-fi to me, nowadays, either seems to be ludicrous war-pornography or incomprehensible and dull. So maybe I'm the wrong audience to begin with. I still stand by my Ringo assertion though. He's a reprobate and sickens me to the very core of my being.


Here is said picture of exploding spaceship:

[NormHart]

Bring her around smartly now!

Fire as you bare!

I would point out that some of the most egregious cover art on the "cartoonish women with ridiculous busoms", err, front are the covers of Esther Friesner's collections of short stories on women in swords and sorcery; Strip Mauled, Chicks 'n' Chained Males, The Chicks in the Mail, and Turn the Other Chick. The stories themselves are almost entirely written by women (there is the token male author here and there) and they can certainly not be categorized as misogynist, women know that nothing sells like bosoms.

(Um, bosoms... You know, I am beginning to like that word more and more. It has such a nice round sound to it.)

Can't argue with you about Ringo though, his Republicanism is way over the top, almost pornographic. Not to mention the other stuff.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by NormHart

Bring her around smartly now!

Fire as you bare!

I would point out that some of the most egregious cover art on the "cartoonish women with ridiculous busoms", err, front are the covers of Esther Friesner's collections of short stories on women in swords and sorcery; Strip Mauled, Chicks 'n' Chained Males, The Chicks in the Mail, and Turn the Other Chick. The stories themselves are almost entirely written by women (there is the token male author here and there) and they can certainly not be categorized as misogynist, women know that nothing sells like bosoms.

(Um, bosoms... You know, I am beginning to like that word more and more. It has such a nice round sound to it.)

Quite despite what's contained within the books, I believe that Baen gives off an impression of adolescence and male-dominance and is eerily similar to the Boy's Own sci-fi and that kind of sneering attitude toward women that still abounded in the 60's (especially in the male dominated field of Sci-Fi). An impression given off by their choice of graphic design. At twelve or thirteen Baen.com and their books would have drawn me like a fly to decomposing meat, but at 34 it all feels a little old-fashioned and somewhat creepy. Creepier still when you see some of the gun-toting quasi-fascistic covers of Ringo and his ilk.

[NormHart]

That picture was done for the cover of one of the Honor Harrington books if I remember rightly. A series featuring a very strong woman.

But yes, Baen books was founded by Jim Baen, an editor who loved action science fiction. TOR or Nightshade would probably have Sci-Fi more to your tastes.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by NormHart

That picture was done for the cover of one of the Honor Harrington books if I remember rightly. A series featuring a very strong woman.

But yes, Baen books was founded by Jim Baen, an editor who loved action science fiction. TOR or Nightshade would probably have Sci-Fi more to your tastes.

To be frank, most Sci-Fi disappoints me nowadays, with the exception of very few authors, and Honor Harrington isn't my cup of tea, strong woman or not, I really can't understand, nor want to, military science-fiction.

[NormHart]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Quite despite what's contained within the books, I believe that Baen gives off an impression of adolescence and male-dominance and is eerily similar to the Boy's Own sci-fi and that kind of sneering attitude toward women that still abounded in the 60's (especially in the male dominated field of Sci-Fi). An impression given off by their choice of graphic design. At twelve or thirteen Baen.com and their books would have drawn me like a fly to decomposing meat, but at 34 it all feels a little old-fashioned and somewhat creepy. Creepier still when you see some of the gun-toting quasi-fascistic covers of Ringo and his ilk.

A touch, a definite touch!

At almost 60 I find the draw quite ,err, palatable. Perhaps that's why I'm still single.

Ah well, I have never claimed to be an adult, not even when I was 13 going on 100.

[Over]

David Weber's Safehold series is published by Tor? Maybe that's why the ebook prices are too high?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by NormHart

A touch, a definite touch!

At almost 60 I find the draw quite ,err, palatable. Perhaps that's why I'm still single.

Ah well, I have never claimed to be an adult, not even when I was 13 going on 100.

Let no man call me an adult!!! I do believe that Baen would draw in a lot more people (and keep them there) if they shifted their graphic design into something less 'expected'. I suppose that's why I have a problem with them, because I'm seeing their output from a designer's eye - judging a book by the cover. And maybe I'm missing out on some fantastic books because of that?

[NormHart]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

To be frank, most Sci-Fi disappoints me nowadays, with the exception of very few authors, and Honor Harrington isn't my cup of tea, strong woman or not, I really can't understand, nor want to, military science-fiction.

Military fiction, military science-fiction, military history, and military science are an acquired taste. Often an unwilling acquisition at first. "It is well that war is so terrible, or we would grow too fond of it" R. E. Lee.

[NormHart]

Originally Posted by Over

David Weber's Safehold series is published by Tor? Maybe that's why the ebook prices are too high?

Yes, while there have been many rumors of TOR adopting Baen's format for retailing ebooks there is no sign of them adopting their pricing. The movement of David Weber to TOR is not a good sign IMO.

[KarateMonkey]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Quite despite what's contained within the books, I believe that Baen gives off an impression of adolescence and male-dominance and is eerily similar to the Boy's Own sci-fi and that kind of sneering attitude toward women that still abounded in the 60's (especially in the male dominated field of Sci-Fi). An impression given off by their choice of graphic design. At twelve or thirteen Baen.com and their books would have drawn me like a fly to decomposing meat, but at 34 it all feels a little old-fashioned and somewhat creepy. Creepier still when you see some of the gun-toting quasi-fascistic covers of Ringo and his ilk.

I'm waiting on my first E-book reader, and in the meantime I've been searching out book sources and downloading a collection of free books to start with. I'm a Sci-Fi fan so I've spent a lot of time perusing Baen's offerings, and I've noticed a similar thing. An awful lot of their cover designs seem very...retro. Like a line up of Saturday morning cartoons from the 70s and 80s.

On the John Ringo thing, I had almost convinced myself to try some of his other books since between the free library and the promotional CDs there are a ton of them available for free. Then I read his warning for the Ghost CD. He notes that it's very un-PC and loaded with explicit "kinky" sex scenes. I thought then "I'm really not interested in reading the work from someone who thinks a book with a scene where the hero brutalizes an unwilling 15 year old prostitue is just 'kinky' and un-PC". Like I said earlier, I did download the Paladin of Shadows series, but that's just out of morbid curiosity. I'll skim the first few to see just how bad they are and then clear them out.

[susan_cassidy]

I love John Ringo's Posleen series, Cally's War series, Prince Roger series (with David Weber), Looking Glass series (most with Travis Taylor), and the Council Wars series. It would be hard to find a stronger woman character than Cally O'Neil (maybe Honor Harrington). The Mike Harmon books (Paladin of Shadows) just never sounded interesting to me. I don't really care what the covers look like, just what the story is about.

[derrell]

I read and enjoyed Ringo's posleen series, up to Cally's war. When a book starts out with the strong woman character totured and beaten, and then has her just shrug it off, I really don't have much more use for it. The series was already getting very weak by Hells Faire and Cally's War which was co-written by a woman just turned me off of the whole series.

[Over]

Some people are talking about "strong women"... What does that mean? A women wich has... manly features?

[NormHart]

A woman who;

Withstands torture to eventually lead an escape of military and political prisoners

Shoots, in a duel, the man who caused the death of her lover.

Faces an opponent with samurai swords, survives the experience and goes out to do battle with a superior naval force the same day.

Moves up through a naval ranking system to become a Admiral while overcoming both social and personal issues on multiple worlds.

would, in my opinion, be considered strong.