Seriously thoughtful Learning a new language

[AlfonsVH]

Originally Posted by kacir

Here I have to disagree with you.
Greek alphabet is something different than, let's say Russian Azbuka.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Certainly, learning a language which uses an alphabet that you're already familiar with is easier, but a "strange" alphabet needn't prove an obstacle for language learning for the majority of people. Of course, learning to read and write non-alphabetic languages (Chinese, Japanese, etc) is a different "kettle of fish" altogether!

I think it depends greatly from person to person. When I was in Bulgaria a couple of months ago, I picked up the cyrillic alphabet quite easily in a couple of days, and I was able to read all the signs etc... rather fluently. However, my travelling partner had a much harder time understanding these strange symbols and was surprised that I got the hang of it that quickly.

However, I took an evening course in Chinese for one year, and I found the characters a lot harder to learn.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by AlfonsVH

I think it depends greatly from person to person. When I was in Bulgaria a couple of months ago, I picked up the cyrillic alphabet quite easily in a couple of days, and I was able to read all the signs etc... rather fluently. However, my travelling partner had a much harder time understanding these strange symbols and was surprised that I got the hang of it that quickly.

Having had a fair amount of experience in language learning with lots of different people, the key thing, I think, is to find the learning method that works for you. Some people can learn from simply reading, some (including me) have to write things down in order to make them "stick", others learn through listening or reciting words.

With myself, for example, I can read vocabulary lists until the cows come home and still they don't "stick". But write something out a few times, and it's soon memorised.

We all have different methods of learning - people need to find out what works for them as an individual.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Having had a fair amount of experience in language learning with lots of different people, the key thing, I think, is to find the learning method that works for you. Some people can learn from simply reading, some (including me) have to write things down in order to make them "stick", others learn through listening or reciting words.

With myself, for example, I can read vocabulary lists until the cows come home and still they don't "stick". But write something out a few times, and it's soon memorised.

We all have different methods of learning - people need to find out what works for them as an individual.

It's also the case that different people have different strengths in learning. I learn well using text materials, and I can sound out Cyrillic fairly easily, even though I've never formally studied any languages that use it. On the other hand, I don't learn well by listening. I tend to have to take notes and then read them, even during class or meetings (or when I was working in phone tech support).

I agree with HarryT that in general alphabetic or syllabary systems are easier to learn than pictographic systems (and I think even Japanese people, who have to learn both, will readily admit this). When I teach kids Chinese characters, I have them color in outlines, make the characters out of clay or pipe cleaners (fuzzy craft wire), and form them with their bodies. Or we might go outside and write them large on the sidewalk with chalk or large brushes and water. (Adults practice calligraphy this way in China, too.) It does help to learn the system that characters are based on, as well. In Chinese, there are about 230 "radicals" of which most characters are composed. I tell my adult students to think of them as being comparable to Latin roots we learn in school-- one can figure out the meaning of a word one has never seen if one knows common Latin roots used in the word, and characters are the same way. (However, one might still have a bit of trouble figuring out how to pronounce the word-- there are some tricks, but they are less regular than the connection between radicals and meaning.)

I'd like to learn to read Arabic. I know the general principles, but haven't had time to put into studying it, and since it has no relationship to the Latin alphabet (unlike Cyrillic and even Greek), it will take a bit more attention on my part to pick it up. But it's such a beautiful written language, I think it would be worth it.

[Sparrow]

Language courses are just soooo booorrring!
(Taxi from the airport = snoozefest)

Why can't they liven them up a bit?

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Language courses are just soooo booorrring!

Why can't they liven them up a bit?

You should sit in mine sometime. Not boring. We do a LOT of interaction and learning games. I'm trying to build a body of research that will help influence other language teachers to do the same.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Language courses are just soooo booorrring!
(Taxi from the airport = snoozefest)

Why can't they liven them up a bit?

You've obviously attended the wrong classes. All the adult-education language classes that I've been to have been tremendous fun!

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You've obviously attended the wrong classes. All the adult-education language classes that I've been to have been tremendous fun!

I was thinking more of the self-study courses.
Rosetta Stone was the best of the bunch I test drove; but I didn't have the motivation to stick with it .

[mtravellerh]

I found learning a language works best when you're going there and learn directly by intercting with people. If you're not afraid, that's a real system (except for Japanese and Chinese )

[rgeorg]

Yes, definitely best is "immersion" in the language and culture. I've studied languages in school (college degrees in French & Italian) and now just basically speak Greek. It has been 30+ years since my original language studies so I'm not sure if I've forgotten because of time or from learning a new language. I've lived in Greece for 14 years now, and although I speak well and am understood - I make many grammatical errors and my accent is atrocious (although some say the American accent is sexy ;-) !

One thing for sure - learning a new language gets harder as I get older. Although, in my defense, Greek seems much more difficult than French or Italian because of the alphabet and grammar differences.

[bjornkeizers]

Cool topic. Like most people from The Netherlands, I actually speak several different languages. My native language is Dutch. I am fluent (reading, writing, verbal) in English. I also dabble a bit in French and German -- but that's mostly reading.

Dutch children are taught a second language at a very young age. Even grade schoolers are fluent in English these days. We learn French and German in high school.

I get to practice my English every day. I use the internet, I read English books, I watch English TV, listen to English podcasts and music... I have no choice but to practice

I love being multi-lingual. It really helps with your thought process. Some concepts are easier to explain in English then in Dutch. Dutch is actually quite a difficult language, so I even use English phrases and shorthand in casual conversation to save time.

I'd love to learn a new language. Something like Russian would probably be fun to learn!

[Over]

Reading and talking is the best way to learn a language, for me. I'm much more a visual person (funny enough, I play music "by ear", ha!). Tell me something, I might forget soon or not understand at all. Let me read it, and it's set in stone.

My languages: portuguese, spanish, italian, english and french. Some other languages with a latin base I might figure out well enough to understand.

[rgeorg]

I have read that bi-lingual children, brought up with up to 3 different languages from an early age, have more highly developed cognitive processes (are smarter in general than they would be otherwise). I suppose this is because they use more of the language-reasoning part of their brains at an earlier age? Has anyone else read this?

[sunsetsylvia]

Well, my mothertongue is German and English my second language (and the only one I speak fairly well). I know some words and phrases in italian, spanish, russian and french, but not remotely near enough to actually "speaking" or "understanding".

I've had English classes from the age of 8 (only 1 hour a week at the beginning) until 18 always liked it, but never had to urge to actually "use" it in my everyday life.
That changed about 5 years ago, when I started to read books and watch films in English as well as participate in online forums like this one and never stopped since.
Yeah, it's all because of Jane Austen.

ETA: I also give private English lessons and my first advice/homework to my students is to translate and try to understand the lyrics of their favourite songs instead of just singing along in some sort of pseudo-english.
This way I started to get some better insight into English myself, apart from all the boring homework for school.

ETA2:

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

sometimes I find myself struggling for words in my native tongue (English) because the Hawaiian words pop up much quicker.

The same thing happened to me too, during particularly heavy bouts of English-reading.

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

The below is a road sign in English and Welsh (as is the law in Wales). Unfortunately, the council e-mailed the English text to their interpreter and got an out-of-office reply in Welsh. Not being Welsh speakers they went ahead and used it anyway. The Welsh says something like, "I am not in the office at the moment. Please send any work to be translated"!

Glad we're paying for that!

[Jill74]

you can go to livemocha.com and meet friends as well as learn other language there.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I was thinking more of the self-study courses.
Rosetta Stone was the best of the bunch I test drove; but I didn't have the motivation to stick with it .

"Live" classes are, in my experience, a much better and more interesting way to learn a language.