EU Battery Regulation (2023/1542)

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Soldered wires for the battery does not make the battery easily replaceable.

Jon, do you even bother reading that chunk of the regulation I keep posting? Please tell me where it says no tools should be required? What I read is that commercially available tools such soldering irons, spudgers, etc. are allowed. Specialized tools are allowed if provided free of charge. Proprietary (look that word up since it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means) tools, thermal engergy or solvents are not permitted.

Nothing in there says easily, nothing says that a battery door and drop-in replacement battery is needed.

Not to mention that for me, needing to use a soldering iron is easy. After building my first computer which involved ~1900 solder joints on the motherboard and cards, soldering two wires for a battery is trivial.

A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end-users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.

[John F]

Shouldn't a soldering iron be considered thermal energy?

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

Shouldn't a soldering iron be considered thermal energy?

In a specialized sense, you could make that argument mush as you could argue an incandescent light bulb was a source of thermal energy. OTOH, in the EU document, it would appear to refer to devices such as heat guns used to soften glue joints.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by John F

Shouldn't a soldering iron be considered thermal energy?

Any competent tech has one (or more) as well as solder suckers, solder wick.

Specialized tools are those that only come from the product controlled $ource.
I believe Mercedes just patented a special screw slot to get around DIY repairs.
No one else can make the tool that is only available TO licensed shops.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by theducks

Any competent tech has one (or more) as well as solder suckers, solder wick.

Specialized tools are those that only come from the product controlled $ource.
I believe Mercedes just patented a special screw slot to get around DIY repairs.
No one else can make the tool that is only available TO licensed shops.

It is BMW that did that. Another reason not to buy a BMW. Will they even sell it to independent repair shops?
Apache

[bdub]

Originally Posted by DNSB

As Quoth suggested, you can simply retouch the battery connectors or soldered pads with clear nail polish or you can purchase a bottle of conformal coating and use that for the touch up. On Amazon.ca, you can look at https://www.amazon.ca/Conformal-Coating-Waterproof-Electronics-Motherboard/dp/B0FXB7JHMM for one example.

Thanks for sharing.

I can only hope in the future that I'll be able to read and shower at the same time after changing the battery.

Of course, I'm more likely to get my KOBO wet while traveling if I get caught in the rain.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

In a specialized sense, you could make that argument mush as you could argue an incandescent light bulb was a source of thermal energy. OTOH, in the EU document, it would appear to refer to devices such as heat guns used to soften glue joints.

Originally Posted by theducks

Any competent tech has one (or more) as well as solder suckers, solder wick.

...

Seems a little strange to me. So a heat gun isn't allowed (a device that I would guess any competent tech could have, never mind the general population), but a soldering iron, solder, and solder wick are OK?

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Apache

It is BMW that did that. Another reason not to buy a BMW. Will they even sell it to independent repair shops?
Apache

If you feel you job is pointless, remember there are workers fitting indicators to BMWs.

I don't know if BMW has actually used the screws or only registered the design? In any case the tool is easily made.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by John F

Seems a little strange to me. So a heat gun isn't allowed (a device that I would guess any competent tech could have, never mind the general population), but a soldering iron, solder, and solder wick are OK?

Too easy to destroy the electronics or damage the case and risky for the battery/cell.

A soldering iron is far more common (sold in supermarkets) than a rework heat gun. The heat guns sold in local shops (DIY or supermarkets) are not for electronics rework. They are for paint stripping and similar. Sometimes mis-sold online for electronics. One for re-work has masks, variable air flow and variable temperature. The non-electronics ones might have simply 2 heat settings and are destructive to gadgets.

Repair shops have been using electric soldering irons for about 90+ years. Hot air rework stations are more specialised for things like a BGA. Needing a hot air gun for battery removal is a malicious design!

EDIT
A kind of wire (like cheese/piano wire) is often used to "cut" double sided tape under a battery cell. A solvent may be used to soften glue and then the battery is destroyed by the bending when peeling off. Some evil designs need a new battery even when it's OK, as it has to be destroyed to get at electronics / screws under it.

[Apache]

Originally Posted by Quoth

If you feel you job is pointless, remember there are workers fitting indicators to BMWs.

I don't know if BMW has actually used the screws or only registered the design? In any case the tool is easily made.

I do not work in the automotive industry. I was making the point that 6they made an unnecessary design change that forces people to only use their repair facilities. I would think the tool is also patented and would be expensive to copy anyway.
Apache

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by Quoth

If you feel you job is pointless, remember there are workers fitting indicators to BMWs.

I don't know if BMW has actually used the screws or only registered the design? In any case the tool is easily made.

From what I've read, BMW has not used the screws as yet. They patented the design but lots of patented ideas never reach the production floor.

[haertig]

Originally Posted by DNSB

They patented the design but lots of patented ideas never reach the production floor.

This could be a preemptive patent too. There are lots of those. You don't patent something because you plan on making it or using it yourself. You patent it so that if someone else ever wants to make or use something similar, they have to pay you royalties.

I know from having worked at a large telecommunications firm. We had a competing large telecommunications firm. We made products that did basically the same thing in the end, but the internal ways we accomplished that end were different. We would look at their designs and they would look at ours. We would be thinking, if we were pursuing their design strategy, what would be our next logical step. And they would do the same analysis against our designs. We would try to patent their next logical step and they would try to patent ours. Their logical next step may not have any place in our designs, or our logical next step would have no place in theirs. But these preemptive patents we were both investigating were not to secure something for our own use. It was to make the competition pay royalties if they decided to pursue that route.

This happens everywhere. I personally consider it abuse of the patent system, but if you don't do it, your competitors will most certainly do it against you, and you will be locked up so tight in royalty payments that you are forced out of business. So you get these preemptive patents and trade them with your competitors - "you let us do this royalty free, and we'll let you do that royalty free". Tit for tat.

[Freeshadow]

no one of my actual devices having an easy to replace battery is even close to 1 inch so don't over dramatize it. OTOH I can live very happy without devices being mandatory as thin as 2 or 3 credit cards.