Tech V&R Discussion

[PeterT]

But... How about those special mono crystal cables that sound better than anything else!

[nana77]

That sub-wooer cable uses

* Jacket Material: TPE (Thermoplastic Elastomer)

Thermoplastic elastomers (TPE), sometimes referred to as thermoplastic rubbers (TPR), are a class of copolymers or a physical mix of polymers (usually a plastic and a rubber) that consist of materials with both thermoplastic and elastomeric properties.

While most elastomers are thermosets, thermoplastic elastomers are not, in contrast making them relatively easy to use in manufacturing, for example, by injection moulding. Thermoplastic elastomers show advantages typical of both rubbery materials and plastic materials. The benefit of using thermoplastic elastomers is the ability to stretch to moderate elongations and return to its near original shape creating a longer life and better physical range than other materials.[1]

The principal difference between thermoset elastomers and thermoplastic elastomers is the type of cross-linking bond in their structures. In fact, crosslinking is a critical structural factor which imparts high elastic properties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoplastic_elastomer
There are others that uses silicon, and I guess there are tons of kinds of plastic, that are better than pvc for these purposes.

[Renate]

I like nice cables, but not overly bulky cables or fancy marketing or branding.
Audiophiles who go off the deep end for bulky cables don't seem to acknowledge that whatever they're listening to has probably come through Belden 8451 shielded 22 AWG pair in the studio.

[nana77]

What I specially don't like about, is that having cables that becomes stiff is the first cause, specially nearer the plug's connector or hearphone's ear pads connections, to damage them and hear noised sounds.

I'm also not too fanatic about, but I prefer buying a cable that I don't have to repleace ever.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by Renate

I like nice cables, but not overly bulky cables or fancy marketing or branding.
Audiophiles who go off the deep end for bulky cables don't seem to acknowledge that whatever they're listening to has probably come through Belden 8451 shielded 22 AWG pair in the studio.

"Audiophiles" don't listen to music. They listen to the sounds the equipment makes, or doesn't make as the case may be.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by nana77

That sub-wooer cable uses



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoplastic_elastomer
There are others that uses silicon, and I guess there are tons of kinds of plastic, that are better than pvc for these purposes.

Silicone and other elastomers are only used instead of PVC where extreme flexibility is required or excessive heat. They are mechanically inferior to PVC because they are easily pierced or torn. They might be used on a soldering iron or in certain locations inside an electric oven or hob. They are pointless on audio equipment as an insulation. Teflon (PTFE) is used only on certain RF and high temperature applications. Coaxial RF cables may use various foamed plastics as the inner insulation. The outer will be PVC. I've never heard of actual TPE being used for cable insulation.

Almost all equipment, vehicles, house internal wiring etc is PVC insulated.

Another misleading claim is OFC (Oxygen Free Copper). All copper wiring is oxygen free or it would be brittle.

Finally, gold plating. This is actually a bad idea on ordinary domestic connectors. There are specialist applications that need gold or silver plated connectors. Gold isn't even a very good conductor compared to copper. Gold causes tin or solder to corrode. It also not heavily enough plated for multiple use. Gold plated plugs should only be mated with gold plated sockets.

Litz wire. It's only of value over a range of RF frequencies on coils, because of skin effects and winding capacitance (both only significant for RF). It's inferior for audio unless massively heavy as for audio all the matters is the resistance being a small fraction of the loudspeaker impedance.

There are a lot of scams.

[nana77]

Thanks:

What Is A Conductor?

Electricity is a necessary part of our lives today. It is essentially tiny charged particles called electrons hurtling through conductors from one point to another, carrying current. The current in the wire is dependent on the electrons moving through the conductor.

The speed of the electrons is dependent on whether it’s traveling through a good conductor of electricity or if it’s an insulator. A great conductor allows for electrons to pass through easily and quickly. An insulator blocks the passage of the electrons, limiting the current from flowing. Hence, a good conductor has “low electrical resistivity” and insulators have “high electrical resistivity”.

Gold is used in electronics because it is more inert than copper, meaning it does not corrode as easily. Gold is also ductile and malleable, so it can be easily drawn into wires and hammered into sheets. These properties make gold a reliable choice for electrical segments.

Copper is an excellent conductor of electricity; it is economical and easy to purchase, so it is the most common metal used in wiring. Plastic is an insulator and is often used to encase wires to prevent accidents. The best conductors are often metals like silver, gold, iron, etc.

Copper is a better conductor than gold.

Copper is comparatively not as malleable or ductile, and is, therefore, harder to work with. Another quality of the metal that makes its use favored over copper (or even silver) is its reactivity. Gold is known as a “chemically inactive” element, which means that it doesn’t react with other materials easily. Under normal conditions, it is inert, unlike copper or silver, both of which easily corrode and tarnish.

That being said, there are some scenarios where gold-plated RCA cables might make a tiny difference. For example, if you’re using extremely high-end audio equipment with very sensitive electronics, a high-quality gold-plated RCA cable might help reduce signal loss and degradation. However, for most people, the difference will be imperceptible, and the added cost of gold-plated cables will be a waste of money.

* Smaller signal loss: Gold’s high conductivity reduces signal attenuation, resulting in a more accurate and detailed sound reproduction.
* Better shielding: Gold plating can help to reduce electromagnetic interference (EMI) and radio-frequency interference (RFI), which can degrade the audio signal.

Now, there are differencies and middle ways between being cheap and super high environments.
The massive plug for that Sub link has been made for the specific reason to prevent data losses or interferecies, the gold plated insulates it; that's sound/audio engineering.
If you want to point that I did spend 30$ for that cable, to provide a better, stable sound for a subwoofer on a car (I love her, btw - it's allowed, in english, to say "her" if someone has affection for a machine, a car, spaceships, sailships... etc ).... well.
https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-scie...ectronics.html
https://smallusefultips.com/are-gold...cables-better/

Gold is a ductile and malleable metal, so it can easily be drawn into wires and hammered into sheets. About 28 grams of the metal can be beaten into thin sheets of around 17 square meters

Oxygen-free Copper (OFC), sold in several grades. The various grades are marketed as having better conductivity and durability, but they have no significant benefit in audio applications.

Edit II: pardon, but if

A layer of a suitable barrier metal, usually nickel, is often deposited on the copper substrate before the gold plating. The layer of nickel provides mechanical backing for the gold layer, improving its wear resistance. It also reduces the impact of pores present in the gold layer.

At higher frequencies, the skin effect may cause higher losses due to higher electrical resistance of nickel; a nickel-plated trace can have its useful length shortened three times in the 1 GHz band in comparison with the non-plated one. Selective plating is used, depositing the nickel and gold layers only on areas where it is required and does not cause the detrimental side effects.

If that's true, and if that process has been used on that subwoofer's cable, wouldn't that be an hell of egineering, too? (like, cutting higher frequencies before the amp's low pass filter? LOL!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_plating

Last edit:

The real problem with high capacitance exotic cables (such as ribbon cables, interwoven cables) is that they short the amplifier in a very wide frequency range around the quarter-wave resonance frequency (between 1 MHz and 10 MHz). There is no such problem with zip cords or twisted pairs...

https://www.tonestack.net/articles/c...ble-guide.html

For most low-power home or car speakers (not subwoofers) 18 gauge (18AWG) is fine. 18AWG wire is good for about 50 watts for 4 ohms and 100 watts for 8 ohm loudspeakers up to 50 feet (15 m) or 100 feet (30 m) respectively.

Please don't tell me that cable, which was the default from the car audio stereo, it's fine: https://imgur.com/a/ZAv5PfF
like... 20 AWG?

As long as speaker wire resistance is kept to less than 5 percent of the speaker's impedance, the conductor will be adequate for home use.
[...]
Depending on the hearing ability of the listener, this resistance begins to have an audible effect when the resistance exceeds 5 percent of the speaker's impedance.[4]

A speaker wire's impedance takes into account the wire's resistance, the wire's path, and the dielectric properties of local insulators. The latter two factors also determine the wire's frequency response. The lower the impedance of the speaker, the greater a significance the speaker wire's resistance will have.

Btw, a nice term: Audioholics

[Renate]

Speaker cables: Go to the dollar store and buy two 9 foot 18 AWG extension cords for $2 each and cut off the ends.
Ok, I'll admit that I like to put banana plugs or spade lugs on the ends.
Also heatshrink the cables where the "zipping" ends.

MHz? I don't worry. There should be losses at those frequencies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boucherot_cell

[Quoth]

There is no value to gold in any audio application. In fact it often is worse than the alternatives, but now almost unavoidable.

Frequency response for speaker cable isn't an issue for domestic lengths, ever. The dielectric is irrelevant for domestic audio.

Frequency response is only an issue for things like telephone wires or similar long distance links like for analogue outside broadcast feeds. I've had to equalise cables for audio, but they were several kilometres long!