The Technology Vent and Rant Thread

[BetterRed]

Most first-world children have been armed with a laptop or similar for what, 10-20 or more years. Do they get any training in data management, I don't mean arcane topics like relational database, stacks, dictionaries, tuples etc.

I mean the basic stuff modelled on manual filing systems that Xerox and others 'invented' 50-60 years ago. That a disk drive is a storage device like a filing cabinet, that a directory is more-or-less like a folder, that a file is more-or-less like a document, that there are different types of files, just like there are invoices, reports, letters, court summons etc etc.

Why am I always having to guide the under 40s so, are others having to show them how to boil an egg or make their own avo-on-toast?

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Most first-world children have been armed with a laptop or similar for what, 10-20 or more years. Do they get any training in data management, I don't mean arcane topics like relational database, stacks, dictionaries, tuples etc.

I mean the basic stuff modelled on manual filing systems that Xerox and others 'invented' 50-60 years ago. That a disk drive is a storage device like a filing cabinet, that a directory is more-or-less like a folder, that a file is more-or-less like a document, that there are different types of files, just like there are invoices, reports, letters, court summons etc etc.

Why am I always having to guide the under 40s so, are others having to show them how to boil an egg or make their own avo-on-toast?

You can be happy if they know how to use a word processor or a spreadsheet.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

You can be happy if they know how to use a word processor or a spreadsheet.

Ha! The schools seem no better than 1980s and some teaching MS Word like it's a glass typewriter. Actually forbidden to use styles.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Ha! The schools seem no better than 1980s and some teaching MS Word like it's a glass typewriter. Actually forbidden to use styles.

I used to dislike styles. At first I considered them to be overcomplicated, and MS-Word made them mandatory to use the program efficiently. It wasn't until I started using OpenOffice.org (and its successors) that I started to see the value of styles, and how they made formatting much easier.

Part of the reason was in the MS-DOS days I disliked MS-Word due to the times I had to fight with it to get my documents formatted the way that I wanted. I used MS-Word 6.0 for DOS and it was a pain to use (at times the program would lock up and the fix was to shut down the program and restart it [I quickly learned to save my documents often]). Wordstar, WordPerfect, LetterPerfect, and Profession Write were better than MS-Word when it came to MS-DOS word processors.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by BetterRed

Most first-world children have been armed with a laptop or similar for what, 10-20 or more years. Do they get any training in data management, I don't mean arcane topics like relational database, stacks, dictionaries, tuples etc.

I mean the basic stuff modelled on manual filing systems that Xerox and others 'invented' 50-60 years ago. That a disk drive is a storage device like a filing cabinet, that a directory is more-or-less like a folder, that a file is more-or-less like a document, that there are different types of files, just like there are invoices, reports, letters, court summons etc etc.

Why am I always having to guide the under 40s so, are others having to show them how to boil an egg or make their own avo-on-toast?

I think it is a case of everyone is now using graphic user interfaces like Windows, iOS, and Android. I think people use "folders" instead of "directories" because is in a graphic world it is easier to picture a folder than a directory. It is part of the movement to make user interfaces look like things in the real world.

I think that most younger users have never had to actually use a command prompt. It is similar to using command keys, which I use because often it is faster than using a mouse to do actions (such as copy, cut, and paste). I suspect that most people would be lost if their mouse stopped working.

When I learned to use a computer it was in the MS-DOS days. I taught myself by having the manual handy and looking up what I needed to do what I wanted to do. I was able to do things like writing a menu system using only batch files on my own and run TSR programs (tiny programs that run in the background and can be brought forward when needed).

[ratinox]

Can I just rant briefly about Amazon's delivery service logistics? And by extension degenerative AI?

I ordered two of an item. Two identical items. From one vendor.

And for some forsaken AI driven reason, Amazon decided to split the order and ship one via USPS and the other via their own delivery service.

The (current) promise of (de)generative AI is to reduce this kind of wasteful nonsense, not promote it. Welcome to the future.

[BetterRed]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

. . .
It is part of the movement to make user interfaces look like things in the real world.

Which Xerox Parc Place pioneered in the 1970's, which Apple, MS, Digital Research etc, etc, copied in the 1980s.

That's the environment that I'm referring to.

BR

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

It is part of the movement to make user interfaces look like things in the real world.

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

That's what I was thinking of, but I didn't want to say it. There is one remnant of Microsoft Bob that still exists: Comic Sans.

Nowadays, the move is towards Flat UI design.There's still some remnants of duplicating the real world, such as the "Save" icon looking like a floppy disc, although floppy discs have been abandoned.

[DNSB]

Skeuomorphism is still hanging in there though it goes in and out of style.

[ratinox]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Skeuomorphism is still hanging in there though it goes in and out of style.

Seems we're in an "out" phase. I think due to the ubiquity of pocket-sized devices with little room for skeuomorphic nonsense. Also, we're into a second generation which has never seen a Rolodex file or heard an actual dial tone.

[Quoth]

There is a happy medium between crazy overly photographic or retro machine Skeuomorphic GUI elements and stupid too abstract totally flat icons and symbols that have no connection to reality outside of the idiot that did them.

Dial tones are still common and nothing to do with GUI elements. A Rolodex was always stupid, because in many places no-one ever saw them except on old US Movies.

A calculator still looks the same as 50+ years ago and people still use them. A stylised 3.5" floppy isn't much good for Save, nor a stylised HDD image. But file drawers (and folders in them) are still common and won't go away. Nor will locks, open doors, radio aerials, microphones, loudspeakers, keyboards, cameras or batteries. I read that Win11 has messed up the battery charge indicator, something that worked well on Windows laptops over 25 years ago.

[JSWolf]

What has Apple ever made themselves (other then the Apple ][ and Apple ][+) instead of copying/stealing/buying the idea/product?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

I used to dislike styles. At first I considered them to be overcomplicated, and MS-Word made them mandatory to use the program efficiently. It wasn't until I started using OpenOffice.org (and its successors) that I started to see the value of styles, and how they made formatting much easier.

Part of the reason was in the MS-DOS days I disliked MS-Word due to the times I had to fight with it to get my documents formatted the way that I wanted. I used MS-Word 6.0 for DOS and it was a pain to use (at times the program would lock up and the fix was to shut down the program and restart it [I quickly learned to save my documents often]). Wordstar, WordPerfect, LetterPerfect, and Profession Write were better than MS-Word when it came to MS-DOS word processors.

I used to use Wordperfect for DOS and then Wordperfect for Windows. I liked it better then Word. Unfortunately the better program lost the war.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Solitaire1

I think it is a case of everyone is now using graphic user interfaces like Windows, iOS, and Android. I think people use "folders" instead of "directories" because is in a graphic world it is easier to picture a folder than a directory. It is part of the movement to make user interfaces look like things in the real world.

I think that most younger users have never had to actually use a command prompt. It is similar to using command keys, which I use because often it is faster than using a mouse to do actions (such as copy, cut, and paste). I suspect that most people would be lost if their mouse stopped working.

When I learned to use a computer it was in the MS-DOS days. I taught myself by having the manual handy and looking up what I needed to do what I wanted to do. I was able to do things like writing a menu system using only batch files on my own and run TSR programs (time programs that run in the background and can be brought forward when needed).

I do use the copy/cut/paste shortcut keys a lot. I bet a lot of younger people highlight and then use the edit menu for copy/cut/paste. I would find that annoying.