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Old 01-02-2021, 07:22 AM   #196
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Yes and No. Indies do get most of the price of their books, however, there are several different price models used by Indies. Those who produce a book or two a year, tend to price very close to the big publisher price point. Those who churn out a book every month or so tend to price at a lower price point, simply because they are more like the pulp writers of old.
And the price models are driven by cost and what the market will bear, along with other factors? If supporting "other authors" is part of "most of the cost", eliminating it seems rather major?

And according to Amazon, "printing" is also a major recurring cost:

for a 300 page (I assume (mass market ) paperback) is $4.45. I think this also includes shipping cost?

A tried to google for what the big publishers would be paying, but didn't have any luck. Since quantities aren't mentioned from Amazon, I'd assume the cost would go down, but even at 1/2 the cost, it still seems like a major cost.

Anyone have a link to big publishers costs?
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:37 AM   #197
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I don't understand those who seem to think that wanting things to be cheaper is entitlement. People have always wanted things to be cheaper, wages to be bigger, living and working conditions to be better. It's natural. And they should want it. It's the driving force of the civilization. Otherwise it's likely we would be living in a world with a handful of super-rich and billions of dirt-poor, with no middle ground in between.

What's so wrong with wanting things to be more affordable? It's not the same as wanting the makers of those things to not get paid. The wish for cheaper, more affordable goods is one of the factors in keeping the invention going, finding new ways to make things, for lower costs. Does someone miss the times when only the very rich could afford books and other luxury goods? I bet one could hear a lot about the entitlement of the masses then too.
The issue is expressed by the economic theory known as the race to the bottom. While you can find a lot of different explanations, in it's broadest sense, it basically says when you are focused on just the price, then you end of with cheap crap rather than inexpensive goods that are of the same quality of what you currently have. As has been pointed out many, many times, you can already buy cheap crap with regards to ebooks. Heck, there are tons of options if you don't want to pay a dime, be it PD books, fanflic or just basic stories that people post on the internet.

But people don't want that, they want the latest big name book for pennies. But, big name authors aren't going to waste their time writing books if they aren't going to get paid enough to support their lifestyle. That's the issue. Prices are the way they are because enough people are willing to pay for the latest from their favorite authors to in general allow their favorite author to make a living. A small handful make lots of money, a larger group make enough money to make ends meet just like most occupations, most try it for a while, can't sell enough books and give it up.
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Old 01-02-2021, 10:46 AM   #198
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And according to Amazon, "printing" is also a major recurring cost:

for a 300 page (I assume (mass market ) paperback) is $4.45. I think this also includes shipping cost?
That will be the cost for a single print-on-demand book. Not a mass-market paperback produced in a print run of thousands.
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:16 AM   #199
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But someone around here (I want to say Quoth, but I might be wrong there) said that increasingly bigger publishers are going to PoD for stuff they expect to sell slowly, like backlist titles.
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:16 PM   #200
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That will be the cost for a single print-on-demand book. Not a mass-market paperback produced in a print run of thousands.
And I mentioned it in The next paragraph. And I don't think we are just discussing mass market paperbacks, but paper books in general.
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:20 PM   #201
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I was browsing U.S. Amazon, and it appears that ebooks are "significantly" cheaper than paper for newer big publisher books. This seems relatively new (to me) at Amazon.

Has a "model" changed?
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Old 01-02-2021, 12:40 PM   #202
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I was browsing U.S. Amazon, and it appears that ebooks are "significantly" cheaper than paper for newer big publisher books. This seems relatively new (to me) at Amazon.

Has a "model" changed?
Nope. Ebooks more expensive than their paper counterparts have always been the exception and not the rule. New or old, the average savings on purchasing KindleBook versions of Big Publishing releases (rather than their paper counterparts) has seemed pretty consistent to me.
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:11 PM   #203
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Nope. Ebooks more expensive than their paper counterparts have always been the exception and not the rule. New or old, the average savings on purchasing KindleBook versions of Big Publishing releases (rather than their paper counterparts) has seemed pretty consistent to me.
I didn't say more expensive, I said significantly less expensive.

In the past, it was argued that publishers priced the ebook as the same price as the hardcover because the publishers didn't want to cut into the profitability of the hardcovers. That is what I recall reading many times to justify "too expensive" ebooks.

Now I'm seeing the ebooks at much cheaper prices than the hardcover books, again, newer releases from big publishers.
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:37 PM   #204
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I didn't say more expensive, I said significantly less expensive.
I know what you said. And I disagreed. I'm seeing the same savings on KindleBooks (over their paper counterpart prices) on average that I always have (post-Agency, anyway). On new or old releases from big publishers.
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:48 PM   #205
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I know what you said. And I disagreed. I'm seeing the same savings on KindleBooks (over their paper counterpart prices) on average that I always have (post-Agency, anyway). On new or old releases from big publishers.
Can't argue with that. I'm just saying (liKe you) what I see and recall.

And I recall that the whole Amazon past practice of pricing the NY time best seller ebooks backed up my recollection.
Last edited by John F; 01-02-2021 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:10 PM   #206
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I was browsing U.S. Amazon, and it appears that ebooks are "significantly" cheaper than paper for newer big publisher books. This seems relatively new (to me) at Amazon.
I have noticed the same thing for books that I look at for new releases.

For books that have been out for a couple of years or more it is still common for the paperback selling price to be lower than the ebook, and sometimes the price for a "new" hardback that has been out for over 2 years is a bit cheaper than the paperback.
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Has a "model" changed?
I don't know, but I hope so.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:12 PM   #207
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I know what you said. And I disagreed. I'm seeing the same savings on KindleBooks (over their paper counterpart prices) on average that I always have (post-Agency, anyway). On new or old releases from big publishers.
And I missed the post-agency part of your post. My apologies.

But just to reiterate, I'll give you a nope also, as I recall ebook and paper book prices being roughly the same (same givens I gave before).
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:31 PM   #208
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And I recall that the whole Amazon past practice of pricing the NY time best seller ebooks backed up my recollection.
Selling some best selling ebooks at 9.99 was a pre-Agency thing. I clearly specified that I'm seeing no significant decrease in the price of new Kindle ebook releases from big publishers post-agency. And new release ebooks (purchased from Amazon) from big publishers represents the bulk of my purchasing.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:39 PM   #209
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Selling some best selling ebooks at 9.99 was a pre-Agency thing. I clearly specified that I'm seeing no significant decrease in the price of new Kindle ebook releases from big publishers post-agency. ...
and again, my apologies for missing that part of your post.
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:48 PM   #210
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Could it be that you're seeing hardcover prices increasing? A quick glance at my Amazon digital orders shows a fairly consistent $12-$16 for new Big-X (no idea what the number is any more) titles purchased on or near release-day over the last 3 years or so.
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