Ethics and legalities of format shifting

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It's very easy:
If you use a book you bought elsewhere on a Kindle, you are breaking the law - even if you read an Amazon book on your Kobo.
In another country it may just be a breach of terms and conditions - in the EU it is the former.

Only if the book has DRM. There are plenty of books that don't. Yes, even at Amazon. Besides, it's one of those laws that look nice and threatening in official documents, but in real life it's not possible to ensure people obey it. So de facto there is no trap.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

It's very easy:
If you use a book you bought elsewhere on a Kindle, you are breaking the law - even if you read an Amazon book on your Kobo.
In another country it may just be a breach of terms and conditions - in the EU it is the former.

Reading a book purchased elsewhere on a Kindle is not breaking any law in any jurisdiction. Please do not spread misinformation.

Whether removing the DRM from an ebook for personal use is against any law (criminal or civil) anywhere has not yet been demonstrated in court.

It is true that allowing anyone other than the purchaser (even a spouse) to read an ebook purchased at Kobo is against Kobo's terms and conditions.

This does not apply to ebooks purchased at Amazon, as Amazon's terms and conditions allow anyone to read a purchased ebook, provided it is through the Family library facility, or is on a Kindle registered to the original account.

I recommend that the OP gets a Kindle. Then it will be easy to share books with their spouse (through a Family Library).

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Only if the book has DRM.

No - also a format change.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It is true that allowing anyone other than the purchaser (even a spouse) to read an ebook purchased at Kobo is against Kobo's terms and conditions..

This IS an odd one. I wonder if the legality/enforceability of this condition has ever been tested in any jurisdiction? It seems that if I physically hand my Kobo to my wife to read a book I purchased, I would be breach of the T&Cs, which is bizarre, really. And a VERY good test of how scrupulously one observes rules when the breaking of them is utterly, literally undetectable.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Reading a book purchased elsewhere on a Kindle is not breaking any law in any jurisdiction. Please do not spread misinformation.

Wrong - it's part of copyright law in EU.
I don't know about other countries - maybe it's legal in Somalia or Tibet or .... .

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

No - also a format change.

Nope. In fact, Estonian bookstores have detailed instructions on their webpages how to convert and read their watermarked epubs on a Kindle.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

This IS an odd one. I wonder if the legality/enforceability of this condition has ever been tested in any jurisdiction? It seems that if I physically hand my Kobo to my wife to read a book I purchased, I would be breach of the T&Cs, which is bizarre, really. And a VERY good test of how scrupulously one observes rules when the breaking of them is utterly, literally undetectable.

Interesting aspect, if you don't get caught, you don't have to stick to existing laws!
And you didn't buy the book, you bought a license to read.
A paper book you can buy - and I haven't yet managed to read one with a reader.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

This IS an odd one. I wonder if the legality/enforceability of this condition has ever been tested in any jurisdiction? It seems that if I physically hand my Kobo to my wife to read a book I purchased, I would be breach of the T&Cs, which is bizarre, really. And a VERY good test of how scrupulously one observes rules when the breaking of them is utterly, literally undetectable.

Who cares. I obey reasonable, beneficial rules gladly, like not leaving your trash just lying around outside your home or turning your TV volume all the way up in an apartment house . I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to follow every ridiculous law or rule just because it exists. Lawmakers are not gods. They can be just as biased, non-objective and narrow-minded as any other human being, and so can the laws they make.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Interesting aspect, if you don't get caught, you don't have to stick to existing laws!

Blindly obeying any law just because it's law can directly harm not just yourself, but others as well. It was illegal once to help slaves escape, for example.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Who cares. I obey reasonable, beneficial rules gladly, like not leaving your trash just lying around outside your home or turning your TV volume all the way up in an apartment house . I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to follow every ridiculous law or rule just because it exists. Lawmakers are not gods. They can be just as biased, non-objective and narrow-minded as any other human being, and so can the laws they make.

And where does someone draw the line?
I find it anti-social to only adhere to the laws that fit your needs and personally avoid such lousy types.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And where does someone draw the line?
I find it anti-social to only adhere to the laws that fit your needs and personally avoid such lousy types.

Not because it fits my needs. My personal line is, does it harm others, and I don't mean only humans.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Who cares. I obey reasonable, beneficial rules gladly, like not leaving your trash just lying around outside your home or turning your TV volume all the way up in an apartment house . I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to follow every ridiculous law or rule just because it exists. Lawmakers are not gods. They can be just as biased, non-objective and narrow-minded as any other human being, and so can the laws they make.

I wasn't defending the rule. I merely commented on how bizarre it was, especially given the reality that it is utterly impossible for Kobo to know if the rule has been breached.

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Blindly obeying any law just because it's law can directly harm not just yourself, but others as well. It was illegal once to help slaves escape, for example.

Yes, and it was once illegal to help Jews flee or to hide them.
But that's just a lame excuse for not wanting to adhere to current laws - an author to steal the remuneration he is entitled to by law.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

Yes, and it was once illegal to help Jews flee or to hide them.
But that's just a lame excuse for not wanting to adhere to current laws - an author to steal the remuneration he is entitled to by law.

How is my converting my personally purchased book stealing from the author?

[ottischwenk]

What is defended so vehemently here is ultimately theft / embezzlement, in that the compensation due to the publisher and thus also the author is not provided and at best differs gradually from the download of illegal sites.