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Old 03-24-2020, 06:56 PM   #1
droopy
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Question Best format from Standardebooks.org for Forma: their kepub or their epub3?
Standardebooks.org raises the standard of quality high for typography/formatting/coding. They would, for example, take works that are marked as Completed on ProjectGutenberg and make them even more beautiful. https://standardebooks.org/about/
So if I can find a book on that standardebooks.org, I go there.

Each book is available in four formats. Here's how the formats are described. (You can go to a Wodehouse book https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-...ight-ho-jeeves for an example)
Quote:
epub — All devices and apps except Amazon Kindle and Kobo.

azw3 — Amazon Kindle devices and apps. Also download the Kindle cover thumbnail to see the cover in your Kindle’s library.

kepub — Kobo devices and apps.

epub3 — Advanced format not yet fully compatible with most ereaders.
When I go to click on Read about which file to download, I'm taken to the following page:

Quote:
Which File Do I Download?

We offer four different kinds of ebook file for you to download. Which one you pick depends on which ereading device and ereading software you’re using.

1. Amazon Kindle devices and software (but not the Kindle application for iPad): download the azw3 file. You can optionally download the Kindle cover thumbnail if you’d like the ebook cover to appear in your library. (Thanks to a long-standing bug in the Kindle software, side-loaded ebooks don’t display cover images automatically. Complain to Amazon.)

2. Kobo devices and software: download the kepub file. This file is specially prepared to present the best reading experience for Kobos.

3. All other ereaders: download the epub file. This epub2-compatible file will work in all ereaders except Kindles. While this file will also work on Kobo, it’ll look pretty bad; please download our special kepub file for Kobo devices and software.

4. For advanced ereaders like Readium, and for readers who like bleeding-edge technology: download the pure epub3 file. Pure epub3 isn’t compatible with most ereaders yet, so only download this file if you know what you’re doing.

Based on these words, I have eliminated azw3 and epub. But that still leaves two formats: kepub and epub3. https://help.kobo.com/hc/en-us/artic...ks-app-support says that Kobo ereaders supports epub3.
  1. So which should I go for?
  2. When the text says "bleeding-edge technology" (under the epub3 guidance), what does that mean? How does that affect me as a reader?
  3. What can the Standardebook.org's epub3 files do that the kepubs can't?
  4. And, vice versa, what are the advantages of standardebook.org's kepub files over the epub3 files?
Last edited by droopy; 03-24-2020 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:41 PM   #2
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It's the lie, kobo does not properly support epub3*.. the epub 2 files you have disabled should work fine.. I don't know why they warn you about looking bad. The one reason that is often cited for preferring epubs on Kobo is the more technically correct typography.

Personally, I use kepub almost exclusively on Kobos,, so much just works better. (with the exception of a minor glitch in the lates firmware update.)

* Kobo will open epub3 files, but only the epub2 structures and features actually work. Epup3 Table of contents and formatting features do not.
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:53 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by rashkae View Post
the epub 2 files you have disabled should work fine.
Sorry, i don't understand. Which "epub 2 files"? How have I disabled them?
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:59 PM   #4
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On the other hand I avoid kepubs like the plague. But in my dotage I can't remember all of the problems I had, mainly one about when it didn't have a proper cover/title page it hosed the margins. And their advantages, whatever they are, seemed minuscule to me.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rashkae View Post
It's the lie, kobo does not properly support epub3*.. the epub 2 files you have disabled should work fine.. I don't know why they warn you about looking bad. The one reason that is often cited for preferring epubs on Kobo is the more technically correct typography.

Personally, I use kepub almost exclusively on Kobos,, so much just works better. (with the exception of a minor glitch in the lates firmware update.)

* Kobo will open epub3 files, but only the epub2 structures and features actually work. Epup3 Table of contents and formatting features do not.
That isn't completely correct. Kobo does support epub 3 features. Just not all. But, as far as I can tell, nothing supports them all. There is/was a site that did testing of epub3 on devices and apps. When they listed Kobo devices, they showed reasonably good support for reading only features. And even the RMSDK used for epubs has more than basic support for epub3. having said that, I have no idea what features are supported or not.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:30 PM   #6
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They are all screwed up. Standardebooks has lied to users. The ePub is an ePub3 and it will work on Kobo. The ePub3 will not because it's missing the NCX. That's the difference between the two ePub. Plus, the code is not really all that good and the CSS is not all that good.
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Old 03-24-2020, 08:33 PM   #7
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@droopy: This site and it's kepubs where discussed earlier in the year in https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...31#post3939831. The basic conclusion is that there is no advantage either way. Their kepubs are basically the same as the kepubs produced by the KoboTouchExtended driver when you send a book to the device. And there epubs are actually epub3s. They might have less epub3 features than the books marked as epub3, but, the version in the OPF file is 3.0, not 2.0.

Personally, I would use the epub knowing that I can easily produced a kepub whenever I need to.
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Old 03-24-2020, 09:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Personally, I would use the epub knowing that I can easily produced a kepub whenever I need to.
Question 1: You would use the epub, as in, their files that end in .epub?
Question 2: sorry maybe I not following. could you please tell me why you would get the epub and not the kepub? Is it because you have more than just a kobo device, for example do you also have a Kindle or something? I have just a Kobo forma as my device? could you kindly tell me what are the advantages of having their epub file in my calibre library as opposed to their KEPUB?
Last edited by droopy; 03-24-2020 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy View Post
Question 1: You would use the epub, as in their filea that end in .epub?
2: sorry maybe I not following. could you please tell me why you would get the epub and not the kepub? Is it because you have more than just a kobo device, for example do you also have a Kindle or something? I have just a Kobo forma as my device? could you kindly tell me what are the advantages of having their epub file in my calibre library as opposed to their KEPUB?
Honestly, what I said explains it all: I can generate the kepub whenever I need to. I could also generate an epub from the kepub, but, overall the support for epub is more widely available (editors, viewers, devices). And if was going to read on anything other than one of my Kobo ereaders, epub would be the better choice, or better starting point for a conversion.

As to the epub vs epub3, I don't know which I would use. I'd probably just use the epub version as for the books I saw there, I do not believe there is any advantage to using the epub3. But, if it was a site I was interested in using (I'm not), I'd try a few books and see which I thought worked best for me.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
As to the epub vs epub3, I don't know which I would use. I'd probably just use the epub version as for the books I saw there, I do not believe there is any advantage to using the epub3. But, if it was a site I was interested in using (I'm not), I'd try a few books and see which I thought worked best for me.
As to the ePub vs. ePub3, the difference (as far as I can tell) is the ePub has an NCX ToC for backwards comparability and the ePub3 is missing the NCX ToC.
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Old 03-25-2020, 01:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
They are all screwed up. Standardebooks has lied to users. The ePub is an ePub3 and it will work on Kobo. The ePub3 will not because it's missing the NCX. That's the difference between the two ePub. Plus, the code is not really all that good and the CSS is not all that good.
Hi Wolf (with the Penguin avatar!),
Thanks for chiming in.
Q1; If you had a Kobo Forma and had to choose a format from standardebooks.org, which would you choose?
Q2: Do you (or anyone here) know has some other site with better formatted/coded PG Wodehouse ebooks?
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy View Post
Hi Wolf (with the Penguin avatar!),
Thanks for chiming in.
Q1; If you had a Kobo Forma and had to choose a format from standardebooks.org, which would you choose?
Q2: Do you (or anyone here) know has some other site with better formatted/coded PG Wodehouse ebooks?
Q1 - If I had to choose a format from that site, I would go for ePub and read in ePub.

Q2. There used to be a lot of Wodehouse on MR. But that's since been removed. I would get the Wodehouse books from Project Gutenberg in HTML and do the work to change them into ePub by hand in Calibre or Sigil.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:55 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by droopy View Post
Q2: Do you (or anyone here) know has some other site with better formatted/coded PG Wodehouse ebooks?
Amazon’s got a lot of free PD Wodehouse for Kindle and AFAICR, they’re all clean copies.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by issybird View Post
Amazon’s got a lot of free PD Wodehouse for Kindle and AFAICR, they’re all clean copies.
Can the Wodehouse that's been removed from MR be put back on since they exist on PG?
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rashkae View Post
It's the lie, kobo does not properly support epub3*.. the epub 2 files you have disabled should work fine.. I don't know why they warn you about looking bad. The one reason that is often cited for preferring epubs on Kobo is the more technically correct typography.

Personally, I use kepub almost exclusively on Kobos,, so much just works better. (with the exception of a minor glitch in the lates firmware update.)

* Kobo will open epub3 files, but only the epub2 structures and features actually work. Epup3 Table of contents and formatting features do not.
Actually, Kobo ereaders will happily use most epub3 features. You just need to use the epub3 renderer which is triggered by naming the files as filename.kepub.epub or filename.fxl.kepub.epub (for fixed layout epub3 books. A plain filename.epub will use the Adobe RMSDK renderer which has support for some epub3 features but is best used for epub2 ebooks.

It would be nice if they inspected an ebook with a simple .epub extension and used the version information to select the correct renderer but I suspect no one really expected how long it would take for epub3 ebooks to become a noticeable fraction of the epubs being sold.
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