Online petition over library ebook embargo

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by rem736

am i alone in thinking that it's reasonable for publishers to try and make money for just the first 8 weeks? this is the same thing that happens with movies in theatres. if they release dvds/blurays for purchase right away, theatre attendance will be reduced dramatically. why do you think publishers shouldn't do this? it's just for 8 weeks. is this too much to ask?

It seems reasonable to me. Some just get upset because it's the evil publishers who are doing it, or their ox is getting gored.

It is funny how the story has morphed as the details have slowly come out. Of course, McMillian has embargoed the libraries for 3 months sounds a lot more extreme than McMillian has embargoed ebooks for 3 months at libraries or McMillian will only sale 1 copy of an ebook to libraries for the first 3 months.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It seems reasonable to me. Some just get upset because it's the evil publishers who are doing it, or their ox is getting gored.

It is funny how the story has morphed as the details have slowly come out. Of course, McMillian has embargoed the libraries for 3 months sounds a lot more extreme than McMillian has embargoed ebooks for 3 months at libraries or McMillian will only sale 1 copy of an ebook to libraries for the first 3 months.

Also strange how Macmillan becomes McMillian

But yes, language can be abused to be "accurate" without being correct. Which of course can rile people up into a furor over the issue.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It seems reasonable to me. Some just get upset because it's the evil publishers who are doing it, or their ox is getting gored.

It is funny how the story has morphed as the details have slowly come out. Of course, McMillian has embargoed the libraries for 3 months sounds a lot more extreme than McMillian has embargoed ebooks for 3 months at libraries or McMillian will only sale 1 copy of an ebook to libraries for the first 3 months.

Uh, it's eight weeks! It's like playing telephone.

[mitford13]

Bookriot highlights one of the Panorama Project’s efforts:

“Panorama Picks is a project that aims to highlight the most popular books in libraries every quarter. The goal is to bring awareness to titles that fall outside the “bestsellers” label, with the idea that bookstores can take advantage of regional title interest and curate their stock to reach potential unmet reader needs....”

https://bookriot.com/2019/10/30/most...EaJx39TUeVUihw

Macmillan CEO John Sargent’s new open letter to libraries (undated but I believe it’s from this morning—30 Oct):

http://view.mail.macmillan.com/?qs=b...fc228e30a0ba99

[MGlitch]

We decided to change our terms after a year of talking, listening, testing, and analyzing. We looked at two separate issues: 1) the difference in the revenue we get between a lend and a sale and 2) the perceived value of a book upon publication (when its value is highest).

Which would back up my belief that the embargo Tor had a year ago created data which Macmillan used to inform them of the decision.

The letter as a whole does a fairly good job in deflating the libraries claims too. Though I’ll admit I was in the publishers corner from the start so they don’t need to try as hard to convince me that the library is wrong.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Also strange how Macmillan becomes McMillian

But yes, language can be abused to be "accurate" without being correct. Which of course can rile people up into a furor over the issue.

Damnit Jim, I'm a programmer, not an English major!

I blame it all on the speel checkor.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Damnit Jim, I'm a programmer, not an English major!

I blame it all on the speel checkor.

Ha, I’ll forgive this if y’all forgive me repeating 4691mls‘s misstatement of 90 days and thus aiding in that whole confusion. Theirs was the earliest I could find anyway.

[4691mls]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Ha, I’ll forgive this if y’all forgive me repeating 4691mls‘s misstatement of 90 days and thus aiding in that whole confusion. Theirs was the earliest I could find anyway.

Sorry MGlitch and all - on looking back over the thread I think I must have misread a post a page or two before mine that mentioned both the two-month waiting period and a three-month wait time in the same paragraph - I guess I got the two time periods mixed up. It was unintentional and I certainly didn't mean to derail the thread!

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

Sorry MGlitch and all - on looking back over the thread I think I must have misread a post a page or two before mine that mentioned both the two-month waiting period and a three-month wait time in the same paragraph - I guess I got the two time periods mixed up. It was unintentional and I certainly didn't mean to derail the thread!

Oh I think I derailed the thread way more than adding 30 days to the embargo did 😏

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

Ha, I’ll forgive this if y’all forgive me repeating 4691mls‘s misstatement of 90 days and thus aiding in that whole confusion. Theirs was the earliest I could find anyway.

You mean I can blame someone else for that blunder? Sweet!

[Tomk2]

thanks for the link: http://view.mail.macmillan.com/?qs=b...fc228e30a0ba99

I do think the perpetual digital copy is a sweet deal for libraries. I have borrowed quite a few ebooks that the library had only one copy of, and I bet the only reason they still have it is because of the perpetual license.

It also doesn't bother me in the least that a library system will have to wait 8 weeks for more ebooks. However, I do think the Libraries feel they are being cut off from serving their clients, and having the community value the library due to the service they provide is the only way they library can survive. McMillans policy interferes with how libraries prefer to operate. I do not think McMillan's policy will actually hurt libraries, just annoy them. Escalating property taxes is something that will hurt the libraries, since eventually the high cost of running a library will be targeted by taxpayers no matter how many new release ebooks they have.

I do find it curious that McMillan feels that easy lending that pleases the library patrons is a bad thing. They want borrowing a book to cause you some sort of cost or inconvenience, as if waiting weeks or months isn't "friction" enough for you. It almost seems like the message is that they "tolerate" library sales and lending for those who are willing to jump through hoops.

I rarely seek out new releases, so another 8 weeks to whatever wait list that will form will not be noticed by myself even if I did look for a new release. Which also means I do not see McMillans policy change generating a sale to myself, and predict that the hoped for increase in sales after the policy change will not be significant. If I am wrong, look for other publishers to copy McMillan.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

You mean I can blame someone else for that blunder? Sweet!

I certainly either started or repeated it, I'm not sure which.
I think we can spread the blame around

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Tomk2

I do find it curious that McMillan feels that easy lending that pleases the library patrons is a bad thing. They want borrowing a book to cause you some sort of cost or inconvenience, as if waiting weeks or months isn't "friction" enough for you. It almost seems like the message is that they "tolerate" library sales and lending for those who are willing to jump through hoops.

It would be interesting what they would think of a policy that didn't limit the number of licenses available, but required you to go to the library to download the eBook. Would re-adding the friction of borrowing paper books be enough of a deterrent?
(I'm not suggesting this as a sensible option, just a thought experiment of how much friction is required to remove their concerns.)

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

It would be interesting what they would think of a policy that didn't limit the number of licenses available, but required you to go to the library to download the eBook. Would re-adding the friction of borrowing paper books be enough of a deterrent?
(I'm not suggesting this as a sensible option, just a thought experiment of how much friction is required to remove their concerns.)

Sometimes you have to think about what the core issues really are.

I think that a lot of libraries have some financial pressure on them as cities are starting to have budget issues and thus are looking for ways to stay relevant in the voters' eyes. I suspect that has as much to do with their angst over the move as anything else.

From a publisher's point of view, they know that book sales tend to be very front loaded, so they want to maximize books sales during that period. I also suspect, based on the fact that they used Tor as the experiment, the publisher isn't trying to protect the super best seller that everyone is talking about, but rather what I like to call the mid-tier author, the ones who have a nice steady record of solid selling books, i.e. 30K-50K with a few books that actually make the best seller list. They are the authors for whom a few thousand sales can make the difference between earning out and not earning out and they are the authors who represent the backbone of a publisher's business.

[Tomk2]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

It would be interesting what they would think of a policy that didn't limit the number of licenses available, but required you to go to the library to download the eBook. Would re-adding the friction of borrowing paper books be enough of a deterrent?

(I'm not suggesting this as a sensible option, just a thought experiment of how much friction is required to remove their concerns.)

And what about the current library trend of eliminating late fees? Now it doesnt cost you anything to return a book late. Does that remove too much "friction?" Or do publishers want books returned late so fewer patrons can read it and waits grow longer? My only disdain for the publishers is a direct reflection of the disdain they have for library patrons.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk