Toronto Public Library hits milestone with 20 million ebooks borrowed

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by issybird

That didn't work with my old X50 Sonys; I've not tried it with Kobo.

(What did work with the Sonys was setting back the internal clock before the book expired, after which it became inaccessible.)

So epub must work differently. When borrowing for Kindle , the books are indistinguishable from purchased books. Only the server knows when they expire. If the borrow expires the book is still readable until the next sync.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Libraries should not use late fees for recurring expenses. Ideally, no item would ever be overdue.

If the late fee is spelled out properly and justified, then I see no problem.

"Ideally" infers a perfection that is never attained.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Libraries should not use late fees for recurring expenses. Ideally, no item would ever be overdue.

This doesn't fly though. What is to stop patrons simply never returning items? Or from keeping an in-demand best seller for 6 months? I just feel like this would end up costing a library more.

[John F]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Libraries should not use late fees for recurring expenses. Ideally, no item would ever be overdue.

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

This doesn't fly though. What is to stop patrons simply never returning items? Or from keeping an in-demand best seller for 6 months? I just feel like this would end up costing a library more.

Rescind the patrons' library cards?

Edit: As far as never returning an item, that could be considered theft, or breach of contract, or something else.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by John F

Rescind the patrons' library cards?

Unfortunately, suspended privileges because of blocked cards on account of overdue fines and lost items affect poor children more than anyone else.

Here's an article from the New York Times from last October about an amnesty program for children.

Library books are free, until they aren’t: Patrons who rack up $15 in late fees at the city’s public libraries are blocked from taking out more books until the fine is paid.

Among those with suspended privileges are 160,000 children, most of them from the city’s poorest neighborhoods, who cannot afford to pay.

Obviously the amnesty described in the article is a good thing for those who need it most, and yet part of me also agrees with this patron:

ayeline Hines, 40, a homemaker, was working with her 9-year-old son, Joshua Laidley, on his reading homework a few stacks over. She said that while fines were burdensome, they had value.

Should amnesty programs be a one-time per user benefit? Or while it may not be realistic to hold a seven-year old accountable, should there be an age where the kid is expected to assume the responsibility for returning books?

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by John F

Rescind the patrons' library cards?

Edit: As far as never returning an item, that could be considered theft, or breach of contract, or something else.

Theft, yes. Which costs money and time to pursue. And then suddenly you have a child with a juvenile record. Or an adult with a theft charge that will follow them to every job application ever. Many libraries will allow you to report a book as lost, but you have to pay for it if that is the case.

Breach of contract is just the civil remedy, wherein you would sue the patron for more money.

A great deal of the responsibility instilled in me as a child with my first library card was that the fines had to come out of my piggy bank if I didn't get a book back on time. I think fines have their place, within reason.

[John F]

Originally Posted by astrangerhere

Theft, yes. Which costs money and time to pursue. And then suddenly you have a child with a juvenile record. Or an adult with a theft charge that will follow them to every job application ever. Many libraries will allow you to report a book as lost, but you have to pay for it if that is the case.

Breach of contract is just the civil remedy, wherein you would sue the patron for more money.

...

You certainly are cold hearted.

What happens now when people fail to pay their library fines?

Maybe only charge someone with theft if they pushed the issue. Let them steal one book, and rescind their card if they do not want to pay for it somehow; use the fool me once... Proverb. Not everyone needs to go to jail for the first time they failed to return a book.

It doesn't have to be an absolute thing. I seem to recall stories of books not being returned for years and late fees being waived.

By the way, I don't really care; I always return my loans on time.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Libraries should not use late fees for recurring expenses. Ideally, no item would ever be overdue.

Too many misunderstood what I was trying to express to quote them all.

My main point was that it is a bad idea to use something like late fees to fund recurring expenses. I don't believe late fees originated as a revenue source, a paid loan extension, or as punishment, but as an incentive to return items on time. DNSB is correct that statistically there will be late returns, but in general, statistics can change. By limiting use of fees to discretionary spending, it would be no big deal if fee revenue plummeted.

By "Ideally, no item would ever be overdue." I meant that that it is desirable that people return books on time, not that physical books should essentially be free to keep however long it takes to read them, without limit.

As a child, I checked out multiple books at a time. Now it almost always takes me longer than a loan period to read a book, so I only check out 0 to 2 books a year and buy e-books commercially instead. So longer loan periods or the ability to renew regardless of holds would seemingly benefit me, but it would just make wait periods even longer than they already are.

[sealbeater]

Originally Posted by John F

Maybe only charge someone with theft if they pushed the issue. Let them steal one book, and rescind their card if they do not want to pay for it somehow; use the fool me once... Proverb. Not everyone needs to go to jail for the first time they failed to return a book.

Seems like a good way to get kids who will just throw the books out of the window and collect them later, if they love reading enough.