Books you would love to buy but can't....

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

...Also ebooks recently became taxed in New Zealand, so now there would be additional issues around tax avoidence to grapple with if I were to buy from the large overseas retailers. There doesn't seem to be a simple way for a consumer to declare unpaid GST like there is with unpaid income tax.)

In New Zealand the purchaser is not responsible for whether GST is collected and paid on local purchases. Assuming a normal customer-seller relationship, whether the seller pays the IRD GST or not and whether they are GST registered or not (not all sellers are required to be registered, depending on turnover) is entirely the seller's responsibility.

That same also applies in the case of overseas sellers of digital products where the New Zealand IRD may or may not have "required" them to be GST registered as is the case for ebooks and return GST. "Required" is in " " because in fact New Zealand of course has no jurisdiction whatsoever over overseas sellers so it is largely a ploy.

My experience is that Kobo and Amazon, for example, have increased their ebook prices since GST was levied - whether such a supplier is actually GST registered or not, whether they pay or not any GST to IRD, and whether they correctly assess the amount of GST to be collected and paid on digital products is their responsibility.

[GeoffR]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

My experience is that Kobo and Amazon, for example, have increased their ebook prices since GST was levied - whether such a supplier is actually GST registered or not, whether they pay or not any GST to IRD, and whether they correctly assess the amount of GST to be collected and paid on digital products is their responsibility.

Amazon, Apple, Google, Kobo all collect NZ GST on New Zealand ebook sales, but if they can tell it is a New Zealand sale then they are going to use that information to enforce georestrictions. So I am pretty sure that whatever method I use to circumvent georestrictions at those big retailers is also going to circumvent the collection of NZ GST.

Buying from a smaller retailer that is not required to collect NZ GST avoids the issue, but most of the smaller retailers are DRM-free so they can't sell most of the big publishers' books, which tend to be the ones that have geographical restrictions. But it is not an impossible situation, just a more complicated one now that ebooks are taxed.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Not really. First off, international treaties can be renounced (not likely to happen). Second, there are many aspects of US copyright law that either do not adhere to the treaty or are not explicitly covered by the treaty( the concept of fair use for example). US copyright law is defined by the US Constitution and acts of Congress, not international treaty.

The only real issue is that there isn't any group in the US with sufficient pull who actually wants to address the issue of orphaned works.

I know your "political will" comment was in the context of orphaned works so your reply here is fair comment, but I was really responding to the wider point of geo-restrictions and the desire for "rules to stop this nonsense".

[TheSmitty]

They do sometimes become available. Raymond Feist’s Magician Apprentice/Master books sometime recently became available again in the US. I believe they were unavailable for some period of time.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by latepaul

I know your "political will" comment was in the context of orphaned works so your reply here is fair comment, but I was really responding to the wider point of geo-restrictions and the desire for "rules to stop this nonsense".

Ah, ok.

As far as geo restrictions, as far as I know, there isn't anything in any treaty that forces it. It's simply a business matter that is enforced via contracts. There is nothing that keeps an author from signing a contract that gives world wide ebooks rights to a specific publisher. The only reason that an author wouldn't sign a world wide ebook contract is because that author had already signed a contract that gave the ebook rights in a specific location to someone else or the publisher wasn't interested in the world wide rights.

[HarryT]

Yep. Most books don't earn back their advance. If an author signs deals with two publishers, he gets two advances.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

As far as geo restrictions, as far as I know, there isn't anything in any treaty that forces it. It's simply a business matter that is enforced via contracts. There is nothing that keeps an author from signing a contract that gives world wide ebooks rights to a specific publisher. The only reason that an author wouldn't sign a world wide ebook contract is because that author had already signed a contract that gave the ebook rights in a specific location to someone else or the publisher wasn't interested in the world wide rights.

That is not the only reason and may not be the primary reason.

A number of posters have mentioned numerous times that it is often more profitable for the author to divvy up ebook rights geographically than to grant exclusive world wide rights to a single publisher.

Maybe authors should consider granting, and publishers accepting, non-exclusive world wide ebook rights, or separating ebook rights from pbook rights.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Ah, ok.

As far as geo restrictions, as far as I know, there isn't anything in any treaty that forces it. It's simply a business matter that is enforced via contracts. There is nothing that keeps an author from signing a contract that gives world wide ebooks rights to a specific publisher. The only reason that an author wouldn't sign a world wide ebook contract is because that author had already signed a contract that gave the ebook rights in a specific location to someone else or the publisher wasn't interested in the world wide rights.

Originally Posted by j.p.s

That is not the only reason and may not be the primary reason.

A number of posters have mentioned numerous times that it is often more profitable for the author to divvy up ebook rights geographically than to grant exclusive world wide rights to a single publisher.

Maybe authors should consider granting, and publishers accepting, non-exclusive world wide ebook rights, or separating ebook rights from pbook rights.

How many publishers have a world wide presence? Even with the consolidation in the publishing industry, there are few if any that have a presence in all English speaking countries. Even with pbooks, you run into quite a few situations where multiple publishers are required to cover the rights to books in multiple geographic areas (local example is Raincoast Books which has the Canadian rights to the Harry Potter pbooks as they represent Bloomsbury in Canada while Scholastic has the rights to the Harry Potter pbooks in the USA). The ebook rights are separate and assigned to Pottermore.

[HLS]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

Vintage Books publish it as an ebook.

It is available in NZ from Kobo as epub (would expect it to be available in UK too as Vintage is English as far as I know) - if cannot be seen then you are likely another sufferer of geo restrictions .

the book on kobo is a different book in the USA. I am looking for the novel buy Pierre Boulle or maybe since I am in America I can not get it

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by kcladyz

the book on kobo is a different book in the USA. I am looking for the novel buy Pierre Boulle or maybe since I am in America I can not get it

Yes it would seem that it is because you are in the USA.

The Pierre Boulle one (trans. Xan Fielding, Pub. Vintage Books, London) is on Kobo, at least, as well as a number of others on the same subject but different names. I know the Boulle book well as I have a copy and this discussion has prompted me to put it near the top of my reading list for a reread .

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

That is not the only reason and may not be the primary reason.

A number of posters have mentioned numerous times that it is often more profitable for the author to divvy up ebook rights geographically than to grant exclusive world wide rights to a single publisher.

Maybe authors should consider granting, and publishers accepting, non-exclusive world wide ebook rights, or separating ebook rights from pbook rights.

Yea, I don't know why I typed _only_ there since it wasn't what I was trying to say. Another reason I could never make a living as a book editor.

My main point is that geo restrictions is a contract issue tied to business models rather than something that is tied to treaty or copyright law.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yep. Most books don't earn back their advance. If an author signs deals with two publishers, he gets two advances.

Does an author get two advances in that case? I had always assumed that authors tend to sign with a primary publisher who gave the advance, while the other publisher didn't. Can't say that I've actually tried to research that question though.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Does an author get two advances in that case? I had always assumed that authors tend to sign with a primary publisher who gave the advance, while the other publisher didn't. Can't say that I've actually tried to research that question though.

No, each publisher pays an advance. That's why authors do this.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by kcladyz

the book on kobo is a different book in the USA. I am looking for the novel buy Pierre Boulle or maybe since I am in America I can not get it

But you can get Planet of the Apes in the US.

[latepaul]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

As far as geo restrictions, as far as I know, there isn't anything in any treaty that forces it. It's simply a business matter that is enforced via contracts. There is nothing that keeps an author from signing a contract that gives world wide ebooks rights to a specific publisher.

That's all true but I was talking about the inverse - in light of Timboli's point -
how would you create rules that oppose geo restrictions? I can't see how you could do that without international agreement.

I suppose some country could go it alone and declare that once a work is released somewhere in the world it must be made available there within a reasonable time. But that's a pretty aggressive stance. It wouldn't surprise me if it's effectively outlawed by current agreements.

Either way, whether it's go-it-alone or new internationally agreed rules, I think it would take a lot of political will to implement this. And the cases where works are unavailable probably aren't common enough to create the support the politicians would need, when there's a lot of vested interest in the current system.