Onyx Boox as monitor

[inudaisho]

Problem of Max2 HDMI connection is coming from misconfigured (or not configured) EDID by Onyx .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extend...ification_Data
https://docs.microsoft.com/ja-jp/win...-monitor-edids

Some vendor distribute edid-editor, so we can know what EDID Max2 have.
Onyx is beginner of HDMI port, so they did this mistake. And they have not noticed this mistake.

[desk7]

A question for Max 2 owners: when you use the Onyx as a monitor, can you also use touchscreen and stylus as PC input or not?

[mdp]

Originally Posted by desk7

A question for Max 2 owners: when you use the Onyx as a monitor, can you also use touchscreen and stylus as PC input or not?

Certainly - using for example bVNC as a client. There is a video of me doing it, check it.
Through HDMI, I am pretty sure you cannot - although possible in theory, HDMI is not used for data exchange.

[jotheman]

Originally Posted by marcosscriven

It’s a 2017 MacBook Pro. I did try other things, including other devices (as described in https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=53)

I tried two different HDMI cables (I happen to have a spare micro HDMI cable for a graphics card), with essentially anything I could find with an HDMI output:

Raspberry Pi 3, Mac Mini (both with macOS and Windows), PS3, and the aforementioned MacBook Pro.

EDIT Oh, and an Apple TV 4th gen

I have the same probem(s). Mac Mini (End of 2014), running the newes version of Mac OS (10.13.3). I got it to work once on my 10th try, no idea why. Doesn't work since. Have not been able to connect any other HDMI device I've tried (iPad Pro, old Apple. TV). Lates firmware version (20180129) from Onyx website.

[jaschenka]

Originally Posted by jotheman

I have the same probem(s). Mac Mini (End of 2014), running the newes version of Mac OS (10.13.3). I got it to work ornce on my 10th try, no idea why. Doesn't work since. Have not been able to connect any other HDMI device I've tried (iPad Pro, old Apple. TV). Lates firmware version (20180129) from Onyx website.

I use the Max 2 as a second monitor on my Macbook Pro (2011). Everything works fine but I also have to choose the settings marcosscriven mentioned before: grayscale, changed contrast and so on.

Unfortunately the glossiness is really bad when using the MacBook as you can see in the pictures. It is pixelated and I have to zoom in a lot to get a clear and convenient contrast.

Pictures (onedrive links)
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtYVg4Oho0myh3vD-BWgH3Sgyvoh

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AtYVg4Oho0myh3oyWyQCeIsKmuC-


Interestingly, when I push refresh for a really short moment the pixels are away. What makes no sense to me is that the same happens when I disconnect the HDMI--> The last picture of the screen is awesome for a short moment and becomes grainy again. Maybe the Max 2 just refreshes the last signal from the graphic input channel but actually I have no idea about IT stuff


Using another old Laptop from Toshiba via HDMI the quality is just great.


Btw, nice forum! Couldn't find such thing in German(y) regarding the issue and/or the politeness of the users

[mdp]

Originally Posted by jaschenka

Unfortunately the glossiness is really bad when using the MacBook as you can see in the pictures. It is pixelated and I have to zoom in a lot to get a clear and convenient contrast.

You mean the graininess? Those pictures suggest that your source is dark grey on light grey (5% on 95%) instead of black on white.

But
> Interestingly, when I push refresh for a really short moment the pixels are away. What makes no sense to me is that the same happens when I disconnect the HDMI--> The last picture of the screen is awesome for a short moment and becomes grainy again
I have not figured out, it makes little sense and the explanations I find are weak.

Try to ensure that the Mac outputs the blacks as black and the whites as white.

[mzan]

[QUOTE=mdp;3651947]You mean the graininess? Those pictures suggest that your source is dark grey on light grey (5% on 95%) instead of black on white.

I have exactly the same problem as described by jaschenka. I tried with an image with perfect white background, but I have always gray dots.

I tried with a Lenovo Edge notebook under Linux, and with a Windows desktop having an nvidia card. I tried with different resolutions.

I suspect an hardware or software problem on the Boox side.

[mdp]

[QUOTE=mzan;3651952]

Originally Posted by mdp

I suspect an hardware or software problem on the Boox side.

I hope Onyx has put methods to retrieve data from the HDMI in the SDK. I have not checked yet.

Much easier: can somebody pull the Monitor.apk from the device?

[mzan]

I tested better.

With Lenovo Thinkpad EDGE 15" and "VGA Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02)" under Linux Mint, I confirm that I have the same problems reported from jaschenka. But it is an old notebook (an i3 CPU) and I'm operating near the limits of the HDMI controller.

With the desktop computer, a GeForce 9800GT, under Windows, it works correctly. So sorry for the previous FUD :-/

As already reported, the eink screen is (by construction) not very bright, but with a desk lamp at 45 degree respect the screen, it is perfectly readable also indoor.

I compared a PDF document in A2 mode using the native PDF reader under Android, and under Windows, using the HDMI connection. The Android version is only minimally better on some minor details like tables, and few capital letters. So the A2 mode is working in the same way under Android and HDMI connection.

Sadly the A2 mode introduces visible artifacts also in text of medium size, and it is a big compromise respect the wonderful EDP mode. Up to date the HDMI monitor application supports only the A2 mode. Summing up: I fell in love with the EPD mode, and barely satisfied by the A2 mode.

All applications with black-and-white/monochrome themes are extremely readable, and I'm happy with them. If there are very few gray levels it is acceptable. If the theme has too much colors, is IMHO not useable. In any case the text must be perfectly black, and the background white, otherwise there are too many artifacts.

For writing documents I think it is perfect. In case of IDE and coding some fine-tuning must be done on themes and so on. For example I tried IntelliJ IDEA with default theme, but it is not readable. I will report better in future... maybe reducing resolution, changing theme, etc...

The mouse is not very usable, but if you for writing or coding, you can use mainly the keyboard, so it is not a problem.

I had to play better with the resolution of the monitor, and I will report later. It seems that lower resolutions have better lags, and do not degrade the displayed details, because with higher resolution one has to increase any way the size of the fonts. So it seems that in lower resolutions is the internal HDMI driver performing scaling (taking advantage of the full resolution of the monitor), and the usability is better. But I had to experiment better.

Sincerely I bought the Boox mainly as external monitor, and I have doubts that the Dasung monitor works better in this usage scenario. But I never tried one, and the video on youtube can be misleading.

[mzan]

Originally Posted by mzan

I had to play better with the resolution of the monitor, and I will report later. It seems that lower resolutions have better lags, and do not degrade the displayed detail

BTW also in my case the max resolution reported from the HDMI connection is 2104x1560.

I used the nvidia driver for forcing the full native 2200x1650 resolution, but there were not significant improvements, because I had to increase the size of the fonts.

So this difference in resolutions can be a "feature" and not a defect/problem, like in case of LCD monitors.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by mzan

Sadly the A2 mode introduces visible artifacts also in text of medium size, and it is a big compromise respect the wonderful EDP mode. Up to date the HDMI monitor application supports only the A2 mode. Summing up: I fell in love with the EPD mode, and barely satisfied by the A2 mode.

I think the default mode for the EPD (ElectroPhoretic Display) is called "GU", "Greyscale Update" (as per one reference in the Onyx SDK). See also below the contents of a slide from a 2105 E-Ink corp. presentation, at https://www.slideshare.net/ssuser7ea...k-introduction

Back to the matter: I recommend that you try VNC, RDP (with RDP you will have the problem of reflecting mouse and keyboard, because it creates a new desktop session), TeamViewer (you can use TV networkless). Clients, you can use bVNC, aRDP, TeamViewer and others.
Unfortunately, with the original firmware you are bound to a wireless network - WiFi or BlueTooth.

21 Waveform Evolution Technology Breakthrough: Refresh Rate
Gen 1
• GC mode (1st e-reader WF mode, flash update )
• DU mode (4 fps 1-bit animation mode with low flash)
Gen 2
• A2 (8 fps 1-bit animation mode)
• GL (nice low flash e-reader experience )
Gen 3
• Regal D (no-flash with low edge artifacts )
• Regal (low-flash with low edge artifacts )

Originally Posted by mzan

For writing documents I think it is perfect. In case of IDE and coding some fine-tuning must be done on themes and so on. For example I tried IntelliJ IDEA with default theme, but it is not readable. I will report better in future... maybe reducing resolution, changing theme, etc...

For editing documents, I want full anti-aliasing...
To use the OS, the IDEs, etc., you should prepare themes. In my tests, I directly created a new user with a profile adequate for EPD (DPI, font size, desktop size etc.)

[mzan]

Originally Posted by mzan

I have exactly the same problem as described by jaschenka. I tried with an image with perfect white background, but I have always gray dots.

Also this problem is not existing (at least on my side): on Ubuntu I had Redshift enabled, that is an application adapting the luminosity of the screen, changing the xrandr output.

After disabling Redshift, the white background is completely white also on the Boox screen, and the Boox behavior is the same (and correct) both on i3 Intel GPU and Nvidia GPU.

Sorry for the false alarms.

[-Lesnikus-]

Originally Posted by mzan

Sincerely I bought the Boox mainly as external monitor, and I have doubts that the Dasung monitor works better in this usage scenario.

Dasung has a smaller input lag, in the rest both monitors are the same. If you are willing to accept an the lag of mouse movement in exchange for a bonus in the form of a full Android device, choose Onyx, if you only need a e-ink monitor with the maximum speed of work due to a smaller input lag, choose Dasung.

Originally Posted by mzan

But I never tried one, and the video on youtube can be misleading.

I see no reason not to trust the video from youtube from third-party authors. In the videos, everything is visible. You can calculate the frame rate and the input delay time yoursel. I myself rely on the information received from the YouTube. And if Onyx does not reduce the input lag to the level of Dasung, I will buy Dasung.

[mzan]

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

I see no reason not to trust the video from youtube from third-party authors. In the videos, everything is visible. You can calculate the frame rate and the input delay time yoursel.

They are not intentionally misleading: it is hard to judge a screen, without using it. But obviously I agree with you: these video are immensely useful.

Originally Posted by -Lesnikus-

I myself rely on the information received from the YouTube. And if Onyx does not reduce the input lag to the level of Dasung, I will buy Dasung.

Yes clear. For coding the important factors are (in personal order of importance):

* readable fonts (hopefully with anti-aliasing)
* input lag (for inserting new text)
* efficient refresh of small part of the screen (for editing, and IDE completition hints)
* smooth scrolling inside the same document
* how many code is visible in the screen without the need of scrolling
* gray-levels
* text artifacts and ghost images
* speed of refresh in case of a completely new page (documentation web-site and so on)

Obviously e-ink is a technology with some drawbacks so I can live with some compromises. But is anyone satisfied with Boox in this usage scenario? Me sincerely not yet, because the A2 mode is fast, but there are no gray-levels and anti-aliasing, while the EPD mode through VNC is promising, but there is too much input lag (at least with my settings).

All can improve with time (upgrades of firmware, better settings on my side, and so on), so I'm optimistic for the future, and in any case the Boox has a lot of additional features, and very powerful hardware.

[mdp]

Today I found the time to do a minimal check of the 'Monitor' software application from Onyx - that which uses HDMI as the input -, and correct the first problems - first in the list, the EPD mode forced to A2 instead of free.

And it was a minimal change, and it went well, it works: with this modification on the 'Monitor' software (you will see a "Monitor MOD" icon next to the original "Monitor" icon) the EPD update mode is preserved, you can keep either Normal or A2.

But, it revealed the underlying fault: the screen is really somehow flashing. You can see it in the video attached: the original desktop is static, but the clone in the monitor (the Max2) is updating something every heartbit. You can see it less in A2 mode, but it is evident in normal mode.

Anybody can pinpoint where the fault can be?

Disclaimer, as usual: I take no responsibility on whatever happens to you or your device if you use the attached software.
The .apk is zipped in order to be uploaded on the forum post.