Pricing Tips on Reference Books?

[SigilBear]

(I hope this is the right forum. If it isn't, maybe the moderator can move it to another forum.)

There are two classic references on state symbols that are found in lots of libraries. (I don't have a clue about the books' popularity among the general public.)

The first book (by George Earlie Shankle) was written before World War II and doesn't even include Alaska and Hawaii. However, it features a lot of good research into the origins of some of the older state names and symbols.

The second book (by the Shearers) was last published about ten years ago, making it also somewhat outdated. It's a "plain vanilla" reference, with few pictures or aids. The general design is very plain, not at all attractive, and it does nothing more than list the names of the majority of symbols.

The first book (by Shankle) is sold on Amazon as a hardcover for $50. There are apparently used books that sell for as little as $1.00, but there is no ebook available.

The Shearers' book is available in both hardcover and ebook formats. The ebook sells for $100.

I turned Shankle's book into an ebook, at the same time reorganizing it, adding some new content, and replacing the images from the original book with nicer images. In the appendix are complete, current lists of certain categories of symbols that Shankle only touched on (e.g. state trees). I've also put a lot of work into the navigation.

I then started working on my own book about state symbols. It's about sixteen times better than the Shearers' book.

OK, maybe three times better. But I began by defining the term "state symbol," then put together a much more thorough reference. There's more content, far more pictures, far better navigation and on and on.

So here's my question: How much would you recommend charging for these books?

Again, Amazon sells the Shankle book as a hardcover only for $50, the Shearers' book as an ebook for $100. (To my surprise, Apple iBooks doesn't have either book.)

Based on comparative quality, I'd be tempted to sell my books for $75 (Shankle revision) and $200 (my book). But $200 seems a little extreme; even $100 is a lot of money for a book. Moreoever, the Shankle book may not have a huge market; it's more of a collector's item or something that might appeal to hard core researchers or Americana buffs.

I turned the Shankle book into an ebook largely so I could use it to publicize my book. If I'm unable to sell it, I'd consider giving it away to libraries, just to get it out there.

Tentatively, I'm thinking of selling my books for the same prices as Amazon - $50 and $100. At that price, either book would be a bargain - more content and far better quality for the same price. If they don't sell well, I can then always lower the price.

I just wondered if any forum members might have some insights into the pricing of reference books, or books in general. Does my plan sound OK, or do you have any suggestions for fine-tuning it or changing it altogether?

I should mention that I'm going to sell both books via my website for a couple weeks before I connect with Amazon and iBooks, partly as a learning experience and partly to give me some time to iron out any kinks. I have seen some books sold on Amazon for outrageous prices, so I suppose I could always price the second book @ $200 and just see what happens.

Thanks.

[Cinisajoy]

The question is not what they are priced but are they actually selling?
Now let me get Don to move this to the proper forum.

[HarryT]

Are you sure that Shankle's book is in the public domain? I'm unable to find any biographical information about him, but he appears to have been releasing books as recently as 1955, meaning that his work is not in the public domain in either the United States or any country with a "life + 70 years" copyright term. If the work is protected by copyright, you can't legally release your book, no matter how much work you've put into it. It's a "derivative work", and would require the permission of the original copyright holder to publish.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you sure that Shankle's book is in the public domain? I'm unable to find any biographical information about him, but he appears to have been releasing books as recently as 1955, meaning that his work is not in the public domain in either the United States or any country with a "life + 70 years" copyright term. If the work is protected by copyright, you can't legally release your book, no matter how much work you've put into it. It's a "derivative work", and would require the permission of the original copyright holder to publish.

The OP said in another thread that he had checked with the publisher and that it was in public domain.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=283225

This is actually the third or fourth thread started about this same book. Also I miscounted. This makes at least number 8.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

The OP said in another thread that he had checked with the publisher and that it was in public domain.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=283225

This is actually the third or fourth thread started about this same book. Also I miscounted. This makes at least number 8.

It seems many authors start new threads to discuss different aspects of the same book. Especially with a pertinent thread title, it can be quite helpful both to the author who would like targeted responses and to potential responders, who may be informed in some areas and not others.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by issybird

It seems many authors start new threads to discuss different aspects of the same book. Especially with a pertinent thread title, it can be quite helpful both to the author who would like targeted responses and to potential responders, who may be informed in some areas and not others.

I know and that is why I linked HarryT to the original thread about the copyright.

[Dazrin]

One way to get an idea about how the Shearer book is selling is to use Author Earning's data. My guess is they aren't selling more than a handful of copies a year, at best, but it would give an idea of what you can expect and from that you can adjust your price.

Based on this link, the Shearer book has an overall Kindle rank of 2,888,945 in the Paid Kindle Store (#1751 in the "Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Nonfiction > Politics & Social Sciences > Social Sciences > Human Geography" list.)

Using the October 2016 data (DataGuy hasn't released the Feb 17 data yet) it looks like anything with a rank 200,000 or less will average about 1 sale every other day. (Column AE shows daily sales of ~0.5 at rank 198,559 in column J.)

If you scroll all the way down to rank 2,888,945 (or the closest to it), rows 188,690 and 188,691, you can see that there are around 0.0173 daily sales or 1 sale every 58 days on average or ~6 books per year.

If you price your book the same ($100) and if your sales are the same, and I don't see any reason why they would be much different at the full price point, and you are publishing through KDP you would get ~35%* of the sales or 6*.35*100 = $210 per year. Give or take.

That price point will certainly impact sales though and you will have to decide if you think there is enough demand for your book to warrant dropping the price. My guess is that dropping the price from $100 will have a better than linear effect on sales. Meaning, if you drop the price by half your sales may more than double. Or if you drop the price to < $10 (1/10th), you could get more than 10x the sales. Based on 6 books per year it still won't be many, but even if it isn't the full 10x and is only a 5x increase in sales (30/year) you would get the same amount of take-home since the rate they pay doubles* below $10 per book (and $2.99 or more). 30*0.70*9.99 = $210.

*I am using these percentages from memory and you should double check them with the KDP terms and conditions.

[Lemurion]

All I can say about the pricing suggestion is that I won't pay $100 for an ebook unless I really need it. It's a price point for textbooks and work reference books.

[Cinisajoy]

Serious suggestion:
If your book is ready, don't bother with the Shankle one. Just put yours up for sale.
And if it was me I would price it at$ 9.99. That price will draw way more buyers. As another poster pointed out, the Shearer book is not selling very many.
Besides, if it doesn't sell you can always raise the price.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

All I can say about the pricing suggestion is that I won't pay $100 for an ebook unless I really need it. It's a price point for textbooks and work reference books.

I doubt I would pay $100 for an ebook even if I did need it. I much prefer paper books for textbooks and reference books.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

One way to get an idea about how the Shearer book is selling is to use Author Earning's data. My guess is they aren't selling more than a handful of copies a year, at best, but it would give an idea of what you can expect and from that you can adjust your price.

Wow, great tips. I wasn't even aware that the tools for sales rankings could be used to calculate approximate sales.

I'd be happy to sell one book a week, but six a year is a little scary, so I guess I'd better drop the price. This first book (Shankle) is kind of a giveaway, designed largely to publicize my book (as well as to get some experience).

I'll probably wind up giving a lot of books away to libraries for free (or very cheap) - if I can even get them to accept them.

Thanks.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Wow, great tips. I wasn't even aware that the tools for sales rankings could be used to calculate approximate sales.

I am not sure that's the way it is supposed to work, but they have the data there and it makes a little sense to use it this way.

That said, take all their numbers with a grain of salt. They are making their best guess at Amazon sales but they don't actually have the data directly from Amazon saying "this is correct". It is just an educated guess and just because a book "should" have that many sales based on a given rank remember that all the books below #100,000 or so are selling less than 1 copy per day. Most of them MUCH less than 1 per day.

[SigilBear]

Wow, sure is sobering to think about all the books we're competing against - 100,000+. But it's still better than the Internet, which is just about owned by three or four mega-websites.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Wow, sure is sobering to think about all the books we're competing against - 100,000+. But it's still better than the Internet, which is just about owned by three or four mega-websites.

Try closer to 3,000,000 books. Yes, it is a sobering thought. However, you won't actually be competing against all of them. It appears in your particular genre there is only one competitor. Oh and just as an aside and not directed at you, but it is not a competition because readers read more than one author. I have heard the competing line more than once.