Have you ever had a point where you were drawn to reread?

[CWatkinsNash]

Sorry for the possible double post, but the edit button seems to be hanging for me at the moment. I found the source of Luffy's quote in post #50. It's from a Goodreads comment by J.G. Keely from a discussion of Keely's review of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe.

[Rbneader]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

The post that cfrizz was responding to was almost entirely made up of a quote that was about readers. The quote was even prefaced with:



I don't care if other people like or dislike the books I enjoy. But... it's kind of like food. Recently, my roommate had me taste a new pasta sauce he brought home from the store. I liked it, he didn't. He said, "Well, that's because you're not Italian and you don't know good sauce." We then had a nice little conversation about him dismissing my tastes as inferior instead of acknowledging that we just might like different things.

It was especially ridiculous because I usually make all my sauces from scratch and he almost always likes them.

We can discuss books just fine without going into that territory. We can also lament the discoverability of the types of books we like without blaming other readers for mucking up the marketplace. We can say we don't care for most bestsellers without harping on "the crowd".

But stuff like this (from what Luffy posted from a source that's still to be identified):

...isn't necessary for constructive commentary of books. THAT is what people are reacting to.

Most people read very few books. They are not experts on literary devices, sentence construction, editing, narrative structure, or any of the other aspects of writing. They don't need or want to understand what distinguishes high quality literature from entertaining potboilers. THAT'S OK. No one is required to be able to pick a good book out of a lineup.

But the flip side of that is that very popular books, like very popular clothes/movies/games/etc, are often shoddily constructed out of stereotypes without much concern for good craftsmanship. They get pushed by advertising and so people buy them and are entertained. THAT'S OK. Most people want entertainment to be entertaining and a little bit, but not too much, thought-provoking and they pick the books they want.

Some people use this as an excuse to get snobby - either saying that a book is too popular to be good or insisting that no one critique a book that they love. Both of those are bad and I don't support either one.

But it's perfectly fair and historically accurate to say that book popularity is unrelated to quality, and that some aspects of quality (ex: developing all characters instead of relying on stereotypes that people like reading about) is a detriment to a book's popularity.

The quote that is setting people off is pretty accurate in its assessment of market dynamics, if perhaps a bit inflammatory in phrasing. People typically buy the most accessible version of a product that has the features they want. Marketing has a huge impact on that, as does price. Quality? Not so much. THAT'S OK. People are picking what they like and sometimes people like things that are low-quality by standards they don't care about.

It's not a value judgement on their favorite brand/author/etc. It's just how human purchasing decisions work.

Also - if advertising wasn't a factor in purchasing decisions, companies would have stopped doing it. Marketing has a clear impact on sales. I think pretending that advertising isn't a large factor in how bestsellers become bestsellers is a bit naive.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Rbneader

The quote that is setting people off is pretty accurate in its assessment of market dynamics, if perhaps a bit inflammatory in phrasing. People typically buy the most accessible version of a product that has the features they want. Marketing has a huge impact on that, as does price. Quality? Not so much. THAT'S OK. People are picking what they like and sometimes people like things that are low-quality by standards they don't care about.

It's not a value judgement on their favorite brand/author/etc. It's just how human purchasing decisions work.

I actually agree with you. My point is that presentation (time and place) is what turns it into a value judgment. Many people don't care about objective quality. For them, "quality" of their reading experience is directly related to their subjective enjoyment of a book.

Heck, I know that a lot of the books I read would never be considered "great" but I don't really care - I like them. And I'm completely honest about the fact that, while I can recognize quality prose, it's rarely going to be my go-to on a Saturday night. I read for the experience of the story. (Which is why I abhor typos and such - anything that yanks me out of the story irritates me.)

This discussion went from people discussing books they like to re-read. Then it went to whether or not extraordinarily prolific writers can maintain standards of quality. Then it went to "readers like mediocre books because they don't know any better". Going from subjective expression to cold market analysis like that isn't likely to go over well, regardless of how accurate it may be.

ON TOPIC

The only books I re-read tend to be Stephen King doorstoppers, because there's just too much detail for me to remember. I've mentioned in the past that re-reading before I've sufficiently forgotten can be uncomfortable for me, like deja vu, because my brain tries to put the remembered bits and pieces back together.

I've been considering starting a Dresden Files re-read but I'm worried that, if it's too soon, it will go badly.

[LadyKate]

Originally Posted by BookJunkieLI

I'd love some of it myself. But just because I'm not capable of writing like that doesn't mean no one else is capable of it.



How do you know that? Do you ask the author how long it took them to research/plot/write/edit a particular novel? Do you know these authors personally that you know how long it takes them to produce a novel? Or do you "just know" that it took them a "long time" to put it together? Because I call bullshit. Yes, there are some novels that when you read them all you can think is "this was just slapped together and tossed out there". Most novels, there's no way of knowing how long it took the author to write them. Plus if an author frequently writes in the same genre or series, they typically keep all of their notes and research from previous projects so that they do not have to keep researching the same information over and over.

And comparing rereading a single author to an entire genre is again disingenuous. No one rereads an entire genre unless they have a very very narrowly defined genre. Plus the OP stated they can reread most of the books by the three authors they listed cover-to-cover in just a day. Each book in day, not all of them in a day. Whether that's hyperbole on the OP's part only the OP can tell us. But based on that, yes, they could easily reread all of Lackey, McCaffrey and Heinlein in less than a year. Assuming they actually do reread all of them. And if they do reread all of them that's their choice.

Ummm not sure where I said I reread these books in a single day... it is accurate though. I tend to read most of my favorite authors books in a single sitting including most of David Weber's Harrington series.

I am no longer working so when I pick up a good book I will read it straight through until I finish it. Very seldom will I fall asleep prior to completion if it is a book I've been waiting for.

As for the comments about quality of writing... I find a number of the authors I enjoy very much are not "literary" but they are enjoyable. Many of them hit the NYT best seller lists several times. Others are just plain enjoyable and fun. Not surprising as the genres I enjoy most are fantasy, science fiction, steampunk and paranormal with a large dash of historical mystery and historical romance thrown in.

I am not looking for the "great novel" as many college courses would describe it but then again... Charles Dickens was just a writer who published serials in the newspapers when he started out.

[Cearuil]

I nearly never reread. All sorts of other art forms I will go back to but rereading books doesn't happen. I could watch a film again (maybe a 3rd or 4th time), listen to the same song multiple times in one sitting or stare at the same painting several times over. Maybe if I listened to the book?

I might try that and see what enjoyment I get out of it...

[Apache]

I just started rereading WEB Griffin's Corp Series. This ten book series is set during WWII and The Korean War. One of my favorite Series. If you like Historical Military Fiction this is a series well worth reading.
Apache

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by Apache

I just started rereading WEB Griffin's Corp Series. This ten book series is set during WWII and The Korean War. One of my favorite Series. If you like Historical Military Fiction this is a series well worth reading.
Apache

I wish my library had them as e-books. I read them 15+ years ago and enjoyed them and have wanted to re-read them but am not going to purchase them all to do it.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Apache

I just started rereading WEB Griffin's Corp Series. This ten book series is set during WWII and The Korean War. One of my favorite Series. If you like Historical Military Fiction this is a series well worth reading.

Good series. Have you read any of his other series'? I keep meaning to give one a try, but so far haven't.

[Dazrin]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Good series. Have you read any of his other series'? I keep meaning to give one a try, but so far haven't.

I enjoyed the Brotherhood of War series and the first four Men at War books, I haven't read any of the others. The friend who got me hooked on these really enjoyed the Badge of Honor series but I couldn't get into it. I tried the Presidential Agent series but stopped after the first one since the series wasn't anywhere near complete (only that book at the time) and I didn't want to start an open ended series from an author who was then 75 years old (he is now 86 years old and his son is co-authoring most of his newer books.)

[crossi]

Funny thing. I've read "good" literature both in and out of school. I've never read one that I actually enjoyed or wanted to reread. They all seem to be about unpleasant disfunctional people who are morose about the mess their life is usually through their own fault. No stories about cheerful, intelligent, and competent people who while they may have obstacles in their life solve them and go on to have a good life. Give me a enjoyable cozy mystery, fantasy novel or romance any day over those. There are plenty of disfuctional unpleasant people in real life. I won't have anything to do with them and I don't want to read about them. To hell with "literary standards".

[Apache]

I have read the other series. The others are Ok, in my opinion, but not as good as The Corps. You can tell the difference in the books that are co-written by his son.
Also, he wrote 16 sequels to the Mash books by Richard Hooker in the mid 1970's.
Apache

[murg]

Originally Posted by Apache

I have read the other series. The others are Ok, in my opinion, but not as good as The Corps. You can tell the difference in the books that are co-written by his son.
Also, he wrote 16 sequels to the Mash books by Richard Hooker in the mid 1970's.
Apache

WEB Griffin is William E Butterworth?

[Apache]

Yes he is. WEB stands for William E Butterworth, III.
Apache

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Apache

I have read the other series. The others are Ok, in my opinion, but not as good as The Corps. You can tell the difference in the books that are co-written by his son.
Also, he wrote 16 sequels to the Mash books by Richard Hooker in the mid 1970's.
Apache

I really liked the Corps. For some reason, I've never gotten around to reading the others. I did read a number of the Mash books way back when.

[shalym]

Originally Posted by murg

WEB Griffin is William E Butterworth?

...and many other authors, in many different genres. http://www.webgriffin.com/authors.html

Shari