Why have e-readers ditched page turn buttons? - Page 8

Solo1959 · 07-07-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

You can set the bottom half/third of the kobo to function as page forward.

I apologize. I doubted you. So I called Kobo and they verified that this setting is available on all of their devices. This is the feature I was hoping for. The woman on the phone didn't know about it. She did it while we were on the phone and it worked for her. It was news to her, too.

Thank you, and my apologies once again.

Purple Lady · 07-07-2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

What is it about "all the buttons you want" that you can't grasp? My Nexus five had a button for home, all running programs, and previous screen. They're non-mechanical buttons. It has a mechanical power button and a toggle button for up and down for a variety of tasks.

Sweetpea wanted hardware home and volume buttons. You told her it wasn't possible, so I replied that Samsung has those. What I can't grasp is why you gave this reply to me when HarryT responded in the same manner.

howyoudoin · 07-07-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solo1959

I apologize. I doubted you. So I called Kobo and they verified that this setting is available on all of their devices. This is the feature I was hoping for. The woman on the phone didn't know about it. She did it while we were on the phone and it worked for her. It was news to her, too.

Thank you, and my apologies once again.

I wasn't aware we had a disagreement

No need to apologise. We all learn new things from each other here

Here are the four user-selectable options for tap zones on the kobo:

patrickt · 07-07-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

I wasn't aware we had a disagreement

No need to apologise. We all learn new things from each other here

Here are the four user-selectable options for tap zones on the kobo:

I like that. I hope Kindle considers a similar system.

crossi · 07-08-2015, 10:40 AM

It still seems awkward to me to not have a dedicated area for controls instead of overlapping the text. Even with those settings I would be constantly paging forward or bringing up a menu when what I wanted was to highlight something or see a definition of a word.

HarryT · 07-08-2015, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossi

It still seems awkward to me to not have a dedicated area for controls instead of overlapping the text. Even with those settings I would be constantly paging forward or bringing up a menu when what I wanted was to highlight something or see a definition of a word.

Tap to scroll; tap and hold to highlight. You quickly get used to the difference. A dedicated control area wastes screen space.

tomsem · 07-08-2015, 04:54 PM

On the Kindle, swipe to turn pages is an alternative to tapping zones (or buttons). I use that a lot as it works the same on Fire and the mobile apps. I wish the Kindles had the same tap zones as virtually all mobile reading apps (roughly divides screen into 3 equal columns: page left, options/menus, page right). I have never really seen the point of the way it has been done thus far. Yes, I know it is so you can more easily reach over and tap with your left thumb to turn pages, but swipe works very efficiently, doesn't require as much precision, and doesn't accidentally activate hyperlinks. And speaking as a heavy mobile device user, it just seems weird.

I'm agnostic on the issue of buttons at this point. I haven't used a device with page turn buttons regularly for at least 3 or 4 years now and do not miss them.

That said, I like the idea that I could turn pages somehow without having to touch the screen. The Fire Phone has 'Scroll' mode, which allows just such a reading mode (either a fixed scroll speed or one controlled by tilting the screen). But it would be nice to be able to have a 'touchless' way of turning pages for Paged mode as well. So if e-Readers had motion sensors (actually the original Kindle Touch did have them, but they were never implemented with the official software), some of this would be possible.

The main issue with having buttons is that everyone's hands are different and fixed button placement that works comfortably with all hands is not really possible. Plus one wants to be able to change hand positions to avoid repetitive strain injury or just so your hand doesn't get tired holding it in a particular way, and that's at odds with fixed buttons.

Bluetooth opens up possibility for using a wireless device to turn pages. For example you can get pedals that can be programmed to turn pages (i.e. for sheet music). I suppose even headsets could control this, where the application enables it. I think one of the Nook Touch devices had a bluetooth antenna, but that was never enabled in software.

But there's no reason (apart from additional hardware and software development costs) why there cannot be multiple, complementary ways of turning pages. Evidently these costs are prohibitive.

patrickt · 07-08-2015, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crossi

It still seems awkward to me to not have a dedicated area for controls instead of overlapping the text. Even with those settings I would be constantly paging forward or bringing up a menu when what I wanted was to highlight something or see a definition of a word.

Sometimes I have to tap twice to turn a page but I've never turned a page when I wanted to highlight or get a word definition. I tried. I couldn't accidentally turn a page when I was trying to highlight or define a word.

If we had the option of redefining the areas, as were shown for the Kobo, I'd go with the third one over, I think, so my thumb could page forward or page back while my other hand held a donut.

Kasper Hviid · 07-08-2015, 08:42 PM

I doubt that the production cost of buttons would matter at all. Manufacturing a button can't be much more advanced that the manufancturing of a clothespin, which costs about $0.15

Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about buttons versus swipes. Still, I love that original Kobo Aura HD design:

Ksquared · 07-08-2015, 09:47 PM

I never minded using the button on the Kobo Wifi, but I like the touch screen on the Aura. I've had no page turn issues, and I like the lack of a clicking sound.

patrickt · 07-08-2015, 10:08 PM

If there were enough people who wanted buttons, we would have buttons. There aren't. We don't. And, the world moves on but not everyone moves with it.

robko · 07-08-2015, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasper Hviid

I doubt that the production cost of buttons would matter at all. Manufacturing a button can't be much more advanced that the manufancturing of a clothespin, which costs about $0.15

I'd guess it would cost more than $0.15 each to manufacture and install a button. But even using the $0.15 number on 1,000,000 units that still $150,000 which pays a salary or two.

howyoudoin · 07-09-2015, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasper Hviid

I doubt that the production cost of buttons would matter at all. Manufacturing a button can't be much more advanced that the manufancturing of a clothespin, which costs about $0.15

Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about buttons versus swipes. Still, I love that original Kobo Aura HD design:

The Tolino e-reader has the ability to change pages by tapping the backside with a finger.

In addition, it has a flush bezel and is water-proof.

I don't get why it isn't a lot more popular.

patrickt · 07-09-2015, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

The Tolino e-reader has the ability to change pages by tapping the backside with a finger.

In addition, it has a flush bezel and is water-proof.

I don't get why it isn't a lot more popular.

I notice in the drawing that the user has his fingers tucked out of the way on the back. That's an awkward way to hold an ereader. Tapping the back would prevent me from having a cover on the device, too.

howyoudoin · 07-09-2015, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I notice in the drawing that the user has his fingers tucked out of the way on the back. That's an awkward way to hold an ereader. Tapping the back would prevent me from having a cover on the device, too.

That drawing looks awkward because they needed to illustrate the tapping mechanism in a manner that wasn't confusing.

This video demonstrates it more clearly:

07-08-2015, 04:54 PM	#112
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,008 Karma: 27060353 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	On the Kindle, swipe to turn pages is an alternative to tapping zones (or buttons). I use that a lot as it works the same on Fire and the mobile apps. I wish the Kindles had the same tap zones as virtually all mobile reading apps (roughly divides screen into 3 equal columns: page left, options/menus, page right). I have never really seen the point of the way it has been done thus far. Yes, I know it is so you can more easily reach over and tap with your left thumb to turn pages, but swipe works very efficiently, doesn't require as much precision, and doesn't accidentally activate hyperlinks. And speaking as a heavy mobile device user, it just seems weird. I'm agnostic on the issue of buttons at this point. I haven't used a device with page turn buttons regularly for at least 3 or 4 years now and do not miss them. That said, I like the idea that I could turn pages somehow without having to touch the screen. The Fire Phone has 'Scroll' mode, which allows just such a reading mode (either a fixed scroll speed or one controlled by tilting the screen). But it would be nice to be able to have a 'touchless' way of turning pages for Paged mode as well. So if e-Readers had motion sensors (actually the original Kindle Touch did have them, but they were never implemented with the official software), some of this would be possible. The main issue with having buttons is that everyone's hands are different and fixed button placement that works comfortably with all hands is not really possible. Plus one wants to be able to change hand positions to avoid repetitive strain injury or just so your hand doesn't get tired holding it in a particular way, and that's at odds with fixed buttons. Bluetooth opens up possibility for using a wireless device to turn pages. For example you can get pedals that can be programmed to turn pages (i.e. for sheet music). I suppose even headsets could control this, where the application enables it. I think one of the Nook Touch devices had a bluetooth antenna, but that was never enabled in software. But there's no reason (apart from additional hardware and software development costs) why there cannot be multiple, complementary ways of turning pages. Evidently these costs are prohibitive. Last edited by tomsem; 07-08-2015 at 05:39 PM.

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07-08-2015, 10:40 AM	#110
crossi Guru Posts: 997 Karma: 12000001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Seattle Wahington U.S. Device: kindle	It still seems awkward to me to not have a dedicated area for controls instead of overlapping the text. Even with those settings I would be constantly paging forward or bringing up a menu when what I wanted was to highlight something or see a definition of a word.

07-08-2015, 08:42 PM	#114
Kasper Hviid Zealot Posts: 141 Karma: 2784614 Join Date: Nov 2012 Device: none	I doubt that the production cost of buttons would matter at all. Manufacturing a button can't be much more advanced that the manufancturing of a clothespin, which costs about $0.15 Anyway, I don't have much of an opinion about buttons versus swipes. Still, I love that original Kobo Aura HD design:

07-08-2015, 09:47 PM	#115
Ksquared Groupie Posts: 181 Karma: 2635236 Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA Device: Original Kobo Aura 6", Libra H2O	I never minded using the button on the Kobo Wifi, but I like the touch screen on the Aura. I've had no page turn issues, and I like the lack of a clicking sound.

07-08-2015, 10:08 PM	#116
patrickt Wizard Posts: 1,221 Karma: 8381518 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Oaxaca, Mexico Device: Paperwhite 4 X 2	If there were enough people who wanted buttons, we would have buttons. There aren't. We don't. And, the world moves on but not everyone moves with it.