Next chapter in the saga of poor ebook formatting

[dickloraine]

I exaggerated a bit The only thing really consistent in most books is the no space between paragraphs, at least in germany. I don't remember any book having white space above every paragraph. Indenting on the other side is handled differently. And I don't mind that very much too. Only thing I think is strange is the margin above every paragraph thing.
Many books in german have even no indentation at all. Two points why I think I recognize formating more in eBooks: first because I am able to change that. That leads to actually looking at it rather than to just read. The second point is, that ebooks reflow. Where a print books is designed page by page, what a page looks on any ereader is different. The formating above without any indents for example would be impossible in an ebook, because there is no guarantee that the last line of a paragraph has white space at the end.
But I stand corrected at my initial comment, it was more wishfull thinking than reality

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by murg

I think the Baen books always have a positive scene break, usually asterisks.
[...]

Even if this is Baen house style, you can't quite rely on it since Baen outsource to book designers.
These have considerable freedom, in some cases more than they are supposed to have.

The example I have in mind was a change from "Chapter Twenty" to "Twenty" in successive books in the same universe by the same authors. The MS had "Chapter Twenty" which is Baen house style and was not supposed to be changed without consultation with the Baen editor and the authors which didn't occur.

The latest book is back to "Chapter Twenty".

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by dickloraine

Two points why I think I recognize formating more in eBooks: first because I am able to change that. That leads to actually looking at it rather than to just read.

Your first point was my main point. People notice formatting more with ebooks precisely because they're able to change it. Printed books' formatting varied pretty wildly and nobody (readers) particularly cared. Because the only thing they could really do with it was just read it. Now everybody's an amateur typesetter as well as a reader.

[Katsunami]

I've just fixed my version of "Best Served Cold." Pretty easy to do: it was the exact same mistake (missing a span) in every paragraph in every start of a new part, so using a regular expression fixed that in a hurry.

[murg]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Even if this is Baen house style, you can't quite rely on it since Baen outsource to book designers.
These have considerable freedom, in some cases more than they are supposed to have.

Actually, I'm going to withdraw my Baen house style comment. I think this is their style, but I can't pull up a book to prove it. It may be the style in more recent books.

[murg]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Your first point was my main point. People notice formatting more with ebooks precisely because they're able to change it. Printed books' formatting varied pretty wildly and nobody (readers) particularly cared. Because the only thing they could really do with it was just read it. Now everybody's an amateur typesetter as well as a reader.

And we notice it because the layout is not fixed, unlike for physical books. Therefore we see where the formatting doesn't work.

[Joques]

Murg, I too would like to live in a world where all ebooks had scene breaks with dashes, asterisks or graphics. Unfortunately we have to live in the world we live in

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

If ebooks had a version number like software things would be greatly clarified.

Some do have a version number in the copyright page.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some do have a version number in the copyright page.

Examples ?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Examples ?

The copyright page screen shot I've attached has a version number and it has been updated at least once.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The copyright page screen shot I've attached has a version number and it has been updated at least once.

Thanks. I had a look at some other Del Rey books and found this
http://www.amazon.com/Coup-dEtat-Tha...dp/B006XWYL9A/

Look Inside shows 'v3.1_r1' at the bottom of the copyright page.

(Note 'Look Inside' may not open in all browsers, I used Firefox.)

Any publisher other than Del Rey ?

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Any publisher other than Del Rey ?

Not a lot. Took a look at the latest 1/2 dozen new books from Amazon and the only one I found with version number was a Vintage Books, Random House imprint book.

[JSWolf]

Another way to tell when an eBook has been updated is when you download it again and it is a different size than the previous download.

[Barty]

My pet peeves:

Padding/margin above/below every paragraph, or worse, <br> between paragraphs.

Setting font-size for main text to something like 0.8em. Please do not set my font size for me.

Setting font-color for main text to something like #212121. This drives me nuts as it makes me think my eyes are going or there is something wrong with my kindle.

Heck, setting anything for main text other text-indent is a corporal offense as far a I'm concerned. Formatting is best which formats least!

[Solitaire1]

Originally Posted by Barty

My pet peeves:

Padding/margin above/below every paragraph, or worse, <br> between paragraphs.

Setting font-size for main text to something like 0.8em. Please do not set my font size for me.

Setting font-color for main text to something like #212121. This drives me nuts as it makes me think my eyes are going or there is something wrong with my kindle.

Heck, setting anything for main text other text-indent is a corporal offense as far a I'm concerned. Formatting is best which formats least!

The following are my preferences:

- Paragraphs: I prefer a blank space between paragraphs. However, using an indent to indicate the beginning of a paragraph is also fine as long as one or the other is used. A minor irritant for me is when both are used together (which I've noticed in a few epubs I've purchased from Smashwords) since each makes the other redundant.

- Scene Breaks: I prefer a visual marker (such as a centered "* * *" that is kept with the next paragraph) to indicate scene break/changes (regardless of where it occurs), making it clear when a scene change has occurred. This avoids the situation where a blank line is used to indicate the scene change and it falls at the bottom/top of the page, losing the visual cue.

After reading the comments in this thread, I'm wondering if some of the inconsistent formatting problems are related to the epub format itself. It seems that so much of the formatting in epub is complex because it is done indirectly (create a style, apply it to the text, and then modify the style to modify the formatting of the text) rather than directly (for italic just tag the text itself within the ebook) like in the .pdb format.