UK e-book prices to rise from 1st January 2015

[tompe]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Apple recommends them but do *not* require it.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/working-.../book-faq.html

ISBNs are a legacy of the pbook era that is redundant in the ebook world because any ebookstore (or book management system) can just read the metadata inside the file itself to distinguish between titles and editions, as any Calibre user can attest to. Even in the tradpub pundit world, the primacy of metadata is fully established by now.

http://www.idealog.com/blog/metadata...to-know-about/

Really? How do you know if the you have a revised edition or not?

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Apple recommends them but do *not* require it.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/working-.../book-faq.html

ISBNs are a legacy of the pbook era that is redundant in the ebook world because any ebookstore (or book management system) can just read the metadata inside the file itself to distinguish between titles and editions, as any Calibre user can attest to. Even in the tradpub pundit world, the primacy of metadata is fully established by now.

http://www.idealog.com/blog/metadata...to-know-about/

I take it you've never curated an online book database? Without isbn/asin numbers, it is a NIGHTMARE.
Metadata does nothing for me when I don't have it available externally.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

I take it you've never curated an online book database? Without isbn/asin numbers, it is a NIGHTMARE.
Metadata does nothing for me when I don't have it available externally.

But you would always have at ASIN or something like it. The difference is that ASIN is not paid for and doesn't come from an outside source. I have no beef with having identifiers applied; I just don't see a huge need to pay an agency money every time I put out another format. There's very little gain, if any, for me. Although if governments discount taxes based on whether I buy a number, there is a gain for me.

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

But you would always have at ASIN or something like it. The difference is that ASIN is not paid for and doesn't come from an outside source. I have no beef with having identifiers applied; I just don't see a huge need to pay an agency money every time I put out another format. There's very little gain, if any, for me. Although if governments discount taxes based on whether I buy a number, there is a gain for me.

Gotcha. I was under the impression that Fjtorres was advocating NO identifier.
and that is just madness...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

I take it you've never curated an online book database? Without isbn/asin numbers, it is a NIGHTMARE.
Metadata does nothing for me when I don't have it available externally.

Note that I'm talking about *digital content* in commercial ebookstores, the subject of the italian regulation.

The ebookstores already need to manage the metadata and versioning for internal purposes and most of the big boys don't rely on ISBNs since they have their own internal systems for books, apps, music & video and, in Amazon's case, dry goods. If available they'll use them but they don't offer anything indispensable, which is why they can dispense with them.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/cust...?nodeId=898182

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

Gotcha. I was under the impression that Fjtorres was advocating NO identifier.
and that is just madness...

No. I'm not advocating no identifier. Or anything. Just pointing out how the ebookstores operate.

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Note that I'm talking about *digital content* in commercial ebookstores, the subject of the italian regulation.

The ebookstores already need to manage the metadata and versioning for internal purposes and most of the big boys don't rely on ISBNs since they have their own internal systems for books, apps, music & video and, in Amazon's case, dry goods. If available they'll use them but they don't offer anything indispensable, which is why they can dispense with them.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/cust...?nodeId=898182

But that trickles down to the various social booksites that DO rely on some sort of internationally recognized ID. and some booksites are international, unlike GR...

Cross-purposes here I guess. Thank you for clarifying...

[murg]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

But you would always have at ASIN or something like it.

I've looked at the metadata for a lot of purchased ebooks. Few have ISBNs, even fewer have ASINs.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by murg

I've looked at the metadata for a lot of purchased ebooks. Few have ISBNs, even fewer have ASINs.

IT may not be in the metadata, but if you go B&N or Amazon there is an ASIN assigned. I create my own mobi files for my website to sell and I don't put one in--and that is the file I upload to Amazon so it may not have it included in the metadata. But if you wanted an ASIN, they are on the book pages of Amazon. I could include some sort of identifier too. I just didn't know anyone used them! Living and learning!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by murg

I've looked at the metadata for a lot of purchased ebooks. Few have ISBNs, even fewer have ASINs.

Why would they?
ASINs (or whatever the other retailers use) are internal use numbers generated by manufacturers or the retailers, often based on their UPC number. They're not terribly relevant on the consumer side.

ISBNs are essentially pointers into a database that can be used to extract records about a given title: author, publisher, release date, book title.

Well, instead of giving an ebook a pointer to an external database, the ebook carries all the relevant data internally. And more: promo summaries, keywords, etc. Retailers read the data and feed it to their online catalog without having to tap into an external system. Amazon, for one, uses keywords to steer readers to books according to genre, sub-genre, topic, etc. So it behooves publishers to make sure the metadata accurately represents the book because these days just stocking a book is no guarantee it will be visible to buyers. Good metadata can guide a superhero romcom to romance readers *and* comedy fans as well as superhero fiction fans. And that is valuable to both readers and publishers.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Why would they?
ASINs (or whatever the other retailers use) are internal use numbers generated by manufacturers or the retailers, often based on their UPC number. They're not terribly relevant on the consumer side.

ISBNs are essentially pointers into a database that can be used to extract records about a given title: author, publisher, release date, book title.

Well, instead of giving an ebook a pointer to an external database, the ebook carries all the relevant data internally. And more: promo summaries, keywords, etc. Retailers read the data and feed it to their online catalog without having to tap into an external system. Amazon, for one, uses keywords to steer readers to books according to genre, sub-genre, topic, etc. So it behooves publishers to make sure the metadata accurately represents the book because these days just stocking a book is no guarantee it will be visible to buyers. Good metadata can guide a superhero romcom to romance readers *and* comedy fans as well as superhero fiction fans. And that is valuable to both readers and publishers.

Thanks for this. Methinks I'll spend a bit more time on metadata before uploading...

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Thanks for this. Methinks I'll spend a bit more time on metadata before uploading...

Amazon has a whole bunch of tag and keywords that let you fine tune your target audience outside the metadata but I don't know if other vendors on the epub have matched that.

As is, the biggest complaint I hear about Amazon tags and keywords is people want even *more*. Something closer to Netflix.

[fjtorres]

Seems Nook has issues with the VAT laws:
http://carolynjewel.com/wordpress/20...ces-in-the-eu/

Shocking, I know.

[samhy]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Italy just changed the rules again, but it seems they at least are differentiating Digital Services, which will not have an ISBN, from eBooks, which will. Nice.

Lastly, as of January 1, 2015, Italy has put in place a new law. Applicable VAT for eBooks sold in Italy will depend on whether the book has an ISBN. All eBooks with an ISBN will have a 4% VAT rate and eBooks without an ISBN will have a 22% VAT rate. This is the rate that is added to your price on January 1st and is the rate deducted when an Italian customer purchases your book. If you obtain an ISBN after January 1st, the 4% VAT rate will then apply for future sales but we will not adjust your list price automatically.

Originally Posted by pdurrant

This is interesting, and unless the rules change before they can get to it, Italy will also be taken to court by the EU.

But it is an clever and definite way to distinguish between ebooks and digital services.

I really like this idea. I hope it will help to change things.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Seems Nook has issues with the VAT laws:
http://carolynjewel.com/wordpress/20...ces-in-the-eu/

Shocking, I know.

Thanks for that. I wondered what they were going to do, if anything. They don't even update the prices as they fluctuate so it's kind of a pain in the neck anyway. I just hard coded some prices in there for now. Yes, it means an increase and yes, it probably isn't a one-to-one conversion. But juggling this kind of thing is about as much fun as swimming with sharks!