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Old 11-18-2008, 11:21 AM   #31
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Laptops are evil... Forged in the fires of hell... That was my original opinion years back when I had to do repairs on them.

Then the first one I owned got confiscated by police when I left it at a clients house overnight...

I later formed a lower opinion while managing a networks security when people I wouldn't trust with their own MAC card and PIN number decided they wanted to travel with millions of dollars in corporate data constantly.

Then the second one I owned got stolen...

When I look at laptops I start hearing the theme from the Exorcist...

-MJ
just what kind of clients do you have ?

hm. between you and busybookworm i'm torn. i was actually feeling rather convinced by his post...

of course, this whole discussion is moot ; i'm about to replace / upgrade my tower (it's overdue...), which means that it's completely out of the question to buy any other computer in the forseeable future. i'm not made of money.
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:35 AM   #32
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Many people love the freedom of a laptop, and I can't fault them on that... I just don't care for them... All the proprietary parts... (Stops thinking about it to avoid raising my blood pressure )

That happened somewhere in the late 90s, friend of a friend deal. I maintained his home network and all his systems. I went over that evening and ran late setting stuff up and just left all my gear (and laptop) there to come back the following morning. I waited around all morning for a call to head over, eventually I called and found out the house was raided. When I found out the charges I didn't even bother claiming my gear. Since I was smart and didn't have anything personal on the laptop (and wasn't registered) I figured I'd just write it off as a learning experience. Not that I was at all connected to what he did, but I didn't want any confusion on that issue, lol...

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 11:43 AM   #33
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Many people love the freedom of a laptop, and I can't fault them on that... I just don't care for them... All the proprietary parts... (Stops thinking about it to avoid raising my blood pressure )

That happened somewhere in the late 90s, friend of a friend deal. I maintained his home network and all his systems. I went over that evening and ran late setting stuff up and just left all my gear (and laptop) there to come back the following morning. I waited around all morning for a call to head over, eventually I called and found out the house was raided. When I found out the charges I didn't even bother claiming my gear. Since I was smart and didn't have anything personal on the laptop (and wasn't registered) I figured I'd just write it off as a learning experience. Not that I was at all connected to what he did, but I didn't want any confusion on that issue, lol...

-MJ
crikey ! what a story.

actually, the whole "proprietary parts" thing is part of the reason i don't have a laptop yet... my current configuration is custom built, as will be my next tower. i can change a hard drive or optical drive myself, and i regularly do. i can add RAM myself. i successfully changed one of the fans recently. i'll have the new one built by someone else (i've never installed a proc or mb yet and i'd rather let someone else do that) but i'm planning to keep some of the elements i already have (dvd burner, one of the two hard drives, disquette drive...), and put them in myself when i get it home. i feel a bit frustrated by the non-customisable aspect of portables.

plus, i'm a webdesigner. i need a *good* portable, if i get one, with a good screen. they're still far pricier than the equivalent in destop size. and as i said, i'm not made of money.

nonetheless, it does have advantages and i'm sure i will *eventually* get one, and it will be useful for me (even just for client meetings alone). it's really more a question of "when" than "whether". but "when" is still very abstract...
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Old 11-18-2008, 01:54 PM   #34
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plus, i'm a webdesigner. i need a *good* portable, if i get one, with a good screen. they're still far pricier than the equivalent in destop size. and as i said, i'm not made of money.
You are definitely a good candidate for virtualization... So you can run various browsers in different versions (Differently configured as well) to check how they render. I take it you are a good designer and are sure to make sure your pages render properly in Firefox, Opera, Safari, et al., correct?

bbusybookworm

If you are worried about a virtual machine's performance (And you aren't playing games in it or doing video editing) just make sure you turn off any effects, like Vista's Aero. And they have OS specific addition packs to help as well...

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:00 PM   #35
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Many people love the freedom of a laptop, and I can't fault them on that... I just don't care for them... All the proprietary parts... (Stops thinking about it to avoid raising my blood pressure )

-MJ
I Agree The proprietary part sucks, But you have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages for yourself.

While I love desktops for their custom ability and Frexibility, not to mention the price to power ratio, I hate being tied down to one place. As I'm travelling 3-4 months of the year, I need to be mobile. So for me paying extra for a reasonably powerful but portable machine is the price of my lifestyle.

The Times i've had a Desktop available (usually work Related) While i've liked the Power (Custom Editing Machine) The weight and peripherals made it quiet unwieldy, and more often then not I carried my laptop for the day to day work, just using the Desktop for the Heavy duty processing.

The Security is I agree a concern, But I'm usually more worried about people losing their phones or Flash drives with data on it then losing their Laptops.

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crikey ! what a story.

actually, the whole "proprietary parts" thing is part of the reason i don't have a laptop yet... my current configuration is custom built, as will be my next tower. i can change a hard drive or optical drive myself, and i regularly do. i can add RAM myself. i successfully changed one of the fans recently. i'll have the new one built by someone else (i've never installed a proc or mb yet and i'd rather let someone else do that) but i'm planning to keep some of the elements i already have (dvd burner, one of the two hard drives, disquette drive...), and put them in myself when i get it home. i feel a bit frustrated by the non-customisable aspect of portables.

plus, i'm a webdesigner. i need a *good* portable, if i get one, with a good screen. they're still far pricier than the equivalent in destop size. and as i said, i'm not made of money.

nonetheless, it does have advantages and i'm sure i will *eventually* get one, and it will be useful for me (even just for client meetings alone). it's really more a question of "when" than "whether". but "when" is still very abstract...


Well laptops while being mainly proprietary, have started to make it easier to upgrade or replace some of the parts like Memory, Hard Drives, etc.

It varies form Company to company, with some like Dell making it easy for you to reach most of the parts. to some like Sony which is quiet the opposite.

As for the cost, well, as I said you pay for the privilege of being portable. Still, if you don't need the latest and greatest you can find quiet powerful machines for quiet reasonable prices.

Also, If you get a reasonable powerful machine, you could always use it as a desktop replacement. Just hook up a couple of extra monitors and your external Keyboard and mouse, and you've got a comfortable system for office use, while still being mobile
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:10 PM   #36
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bbusybookworm

If you are worried about a virtual machine's performance (And you aren't playing games in it or doing video editing) just make sure you turn off any effects, like Vista's Aero. And they have OS specific addition packs to help as well...

-MJ
Unfortunately, that what I'm often doing.

I Test a lot of the Different Video Editing suits as well as Video converters, mainly to test out some specific features to see whether or not its worth upgrading or buying the full version.

Those demo's or trial versions are often the worst for leaving junk behind, and as I usually work off an external USB or firewire drive, where based on what research i've done Virtulisation sofware has limited support.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:27 PM   #37
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Unfortunately, that what I'm often doing.

I Test a lot of the Different Video Editing suits as well as Video converters, mainly to test out some specific features to see whether or not its worth upgrading or buying the full version.

Those demo's or trial versions are often the worst for leaving junk behind, and as I usually work off an external USB or firewire drive, where based on what research i've done Virtulisation sofware has limited support.
Well, now you are just being difficult....

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:32 PM   #38
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Well, now you are just being difficult....

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:41 PM   #39
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You are definitely a good candidate for virtualization... So you can run various browsers in different versions (Differently configured as well) to check how they render.
why do i need virtualisation for this ? i have all those browsers installed directly on my system. (IE 6 and 7, FF3, Safari, Opera, Chrome...)
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I take it you are a good designer and are sure to make sure your pages render properly in Firefox, Opera, Safari, et al., correct?
naturally. i am a professionnal, after all (*sigh*). now you understand why i'm so rabidly pro-epub : format standardisation is like my holy grail.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:48 PM   #40
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VMWare handles USB 2.0, as for Firewire I'm not certain... Googling looks like you just mount it in the host OS and mount a new HD in the VM. I'm not certain how the transfer speed or latency would be affected by that. My recommendation, download it and give it a try. If it works good for you, come up with a new clean build and populate that with your must haves and VMWare. Image that, and party on....

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:49 PM   #41
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why do i need virtualisation for this ? i have all those browsers installed directly on my system. (IE 6 and 7, FF3, Safari, Opera, Chrome...)
I think he meant to say that you could check them under Different OS's as well as under the different browsers.

you could have different virtual machines, running Various different OS's and different versions of the browsers, allowing you to test for specific cirmstances, if necessary.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:52 PM   #42
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VMWare handles USB 2.0, as for Firewire I'm not certain... Googling looks like you just mount it in the host OS and mount a new HD in the VM. I'm not certain how the transfer speed or latency would be affected by that. My recommendation, download it and give it a try. If it works good for you, come up with a new clean build and populate that with your must haves and VMWare. Image that, and party on....

-MJ
Thanks for the info. Its on my to do list to do over Christmas when I'll have a little free time.

The only problem is that I'm going to be in places with very limited or slow connectivity . So I'll need to download the heavy stiff well in advance.
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:54 PM   #43
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why do i need virtualisation for this ? i have all those browsers installed directly on my system. (IE 6 and 7, FF3, Safari, Opera, Chrome...)

naturally. i am a professionnal, after all (*sigh*). now you understand why i'm so rabidly pro-epub : format standardisation is like my holy grail.
I just like checking them in various OS's with different settings and all. Though you sound like you do stuff intelligently anyway, was just thinking how I did/do things

The only thing standard about standards is they aren't standardized... Even when they are.

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 02:58 PM   #44
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The only problem is that I'm going to be in places with very limited or slow connectivity . So I'll need to download the heavy stiff well in advance.
Don't whine about slow connectivity, I downloaded my first Linux build in the early 90s at 1200 baud... I think it took about two weeks. And that was in the snow, uphill, both ways.

-MJ
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Old 11-18-2008, 03:05 PM   #45
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I think he meant to say that you could check them under Different OS's as well as under the different browsers.

you could have different virtual machines, running Various different OS's and different versions of the browsers, allowing you to test for specific cirmstances, if necessary.
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I just like checking them in various OS's with different settings and all. Though you sound like you do stuff intelligently anyway, was just thinking how I did/do things
okay, i see now. i wouldn't mind haveing a virtual mac, i suppose (well, technically, i'd like an actual mac), but as for the rest of it... there's only so far i'm willing to go to accomodate the infernal "quirks" of Spawn of the Devil IE. my actual job is webdesign ; that involves a fair amount of bug extermination and workarounds and hacks already, i don't need to make even more for myself (here is a message from your local webdesigner : hear that noise, every time you choose ie instead of firefox ? that's the sound of millions of webdesigners screaming). although i can see why that would be important for other situations (testing applications, etc.).

thanks for the compliment though. i'm glad i sound intelligent at least. that's a good start, right ?
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The only thing standard about standards is they aren't standardized... Even when they are.

-MJ
heh... but you must admit there are *degrees* of non-conformity... IE 6 for instance, compared to FF or even IE 7... the horror.
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