UK ebook VAT petition

pdurrant · 09-27-2011, 09:18 AM

There's another VAT on ebooks petition at the UK government petition site.

I rather doubt any government would abolish an increasing source of income at this time, but I think it would still be good for UK citizens to sign up with this petition (if you agree with it, of course!), to give some indication of public feeling (or lack of it) on this matter.

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 09:30 AM

Complete waste of time; this is a matter of EU law; national governments have no say in the matter.

mr ploppy · 09-27-2011, 11:18 AM

I don't know about the others, but Amazon doesn't pay UK VAT anyway, it pays Luxemborg VAT because it is only 15%. They, along with Ebay who do the same, are one of the biggest tax dodgers in the country.

elcreative · 09-27-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Complete waste of time; this is a matter of EU law; national governments have no say in the matter.

Not true... national governments can decide what VAT is charged on, the overall EU is only interested in the total that they get otherwise VAT rates would be uniform across the EU... the UK zero and exempt rate items are not matched by every country in the EU...

murraypaul · 09-27-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I don't know about the others, but Amazon doesn't pay UK VAT anyway, it pays Luxemborg VAT because it is only 15%. They, along with Ebay who do the same, are one of the biggest tax dodgers in the country.

And if you buy things like DVDs or cheap games, they will come from Jersey and have no VAT included at all. Which is of course good for you, as you pay less.

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

Not true... national governments can decide what VAT is charged on, the overall EU is only interested in the total that they get otherwise VAT rates would be uniform across the EU... the UK zero and exempt rate items are not matched by every country in the EU...

Not when it comes to eBooks. The EU "e-commerce VAT directive" specifies that each EU member state has to charge its full rate of VAT for downloaded data, such as music and eBooks. Spain, for example, tried to reduce the VAT rate it charged for eBooks; this was ruled to be unlawful by the European Commission.

elcreative · 09-27-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not when it comes to eBooks. The EU "e-commerce VAT directive" specifies that each EU member state has to charge its full rate of VAT for downloaded data, such as music and eBooks. Spain, for example, tried to reduce the VAT rate it charged for eBooks; this was ruled to be unlawful by the European Commission.

And that is still being challenged... it is still subject to reversal provided member states fight the ruling which is why you should lobby for this... if there are no objections then the decision will become binding and final under the EU's unelected bureaucrats...

pdurrant · 09-27-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not when it comes to eBooks. The EU "e-commerce VAT directive" specifies that each EU member state has to charge its full rate of VAT for downloaded data, such as music and eBooks. Spain, for example, tried to reduce the VAT rate it charged for eBooks; this was ruled to be unlawful by the European Commission.

HarryT is right, in that the UK can't change the VAT they charge on eBooks unilaterally.

But EU law doesn't come from nowhere. The only way to get it changed is for national governments to want to change it.

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

And that is still being challenged... it is still subject to reversal provided member states fight the ruling which is why you should lobby for this... if there are no objections then the decision will become binding and final under the EU's unelected bureaucrats...

I have no intention of lobbying for it. I think it's entirely fair to pay the full rate of VAT on eBooks. They are entertainment, and that should be taxed.

elcreative · 09-27-2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I have no intention of lobbying for it. I think it's entirely fair to pay the full rate of VAT on eBooks. They are entertainment, and that should be taxed.

Damn, there goes the entire education system... we don't need books any more and they shouldn't be funded: "They are entertainment..."

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 02:15 PM

The overwhelming majority of eBook sales consist of novels which are sold as entertainment, not for their educational value. Would you suggest that educational books be differentiated in some way?

Graham · 09-27-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

I have no intention of lobbying for it. I think it's entirely fair to pay the full rate of VAT on eBooks. They are entertainment, and that should be taxed.

So would you also advocate paying VAT on paper books, Harry? These are currently zero-rated in the UK.

The reason that eBooks get hit with VAT is that they are treated as downloadable software.

Graham

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

So would you also advocate paying VAT on paper books, Harry? These are currently zero-rated in the UK.

Books sold as entertainment? Yes, I would, absolutely.

Quote:

The reason that eBooks get hit with VAT is that they are treated as downloadable software.

That's right. The VAT e-commerce directive was brought in primarily to ensure that VAT was paid on downloaded music. e-books just got "caught up" by it.

Hellmark · 09-27-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Books sold as entertainment? Yes, I would, absolutely.

That's right. The VAT e-commerce directive was brought in primarily to ensure that VAT was paid on downloaded music. e-books just got "caught up" by it.

What about on books for educational purposes?
If so, is there anything to distinguish from educational books and entertainment books? Gets awfully murky at times. For instance, would you expect me to pay full VAT on Tuesdays with Morrie, when I bought it for my psychology class (was required reading)?

HarryT · 09-27-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

What about on books for educational purposes?
If so, is there anything to distinguish from educational books and entertainment books? Gets awfully murky at times. For instance, would you expect me to pay full VAT on Tuesdays with Morrie, when I bought it for my psychology class (was required reading)?

Children's books could be zero-rated for VAT, just as childen's clothes are. But I have no problem with VAT being charged for books aimed at an adult audience. Is there any good reason that they should be zero-rated? I struggle to think of one.

09-27-2011, 09:18 AM	#1
pdurrant The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠 Posts: 74,430 Karma: 318076944 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Norfolk, England Device: Kindle Oasis	UK ebook VAT petition There's another VAT on ebooks petition at the UK government petition site. I rather doubt any government would abolish an increasing source of income at this time, but I think it would still be good for UK citizens to sign up with this petition (if you agree with it, of course!), to give some indication of public feeling (or lack of it) on this matter.

09-27-2011, 02:15 PM	#11
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	The overwhelming majority of eBook sales consist of novels which are sold as entertainment, not for their educational value. Would you suggest that educational books be differentiated in some way? Last edited by HarryT; 09-27-2011 at 02:19 PM.

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09-27-2011, 09:30 AM	#2
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Complete waste of time; this is a matter of EU law; national governments have no say in the matter.

09-27-2011, 11:18 AM	#3
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	I don't know about the others, but Amazon doesn't pay UK VAT anyway, it pays Luxemborg VAT because it is only 15%. They, along with Ebay who do the same, are one of the biggest tax dodgers in the country.