Amazon is nobody's friend

[OtterBooks]

Friend? Maybe not. But at least I know Amazon won't ever want to sleep on my couch for a month while looking for a job and eating all my food.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Friend? Maybe not. But at least I know Amazon won't ever want to sleep on my couch for a month while looking for a job and eating all my food.

I'm not sure how you can be so convinced of that.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Until the consumer wants something that Amazon does not want.

Originally Posted by frahse

What is your point Mrs Joseph?

I think her point is that Amazon will do whatever they think is going to maximise their profits, which may or may not be what consumers want them to do.

As an example, Amazon may decide to release the next Kindle with support for ePub but not Mobi, and to stop selling ebooks in Mobi format. If they did that, then everyone that currently owns a Kindle would be unable to buy more ebooks from Amazon unless they bought a new e-reader*. That wouldn't be good for those consumers.

*Technically, those people could strip the DRM from ePubs and convert them to Mobi, or install Duokan, but it still wouldn't be a friendly thing for Amazon to do.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by frahse

I just saw a glimpse of a blurb that said that PETA was going to open a PORN site. Is that what you are talking about?

PETA has had an ad campaign for several years where celebrities who share their anti-fur stance are naked (usually artistically hiding all their naughty bits) with a tag line of "I'd rather go naked than wear fur". It was meant to be a humorous response to someone else's comment about waiting for a Humane Society tablet, but I suppose if you've never seen any of those ads, you wouldn't get the joke.

If I ever join a PETA group, it will be People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.

[DMB]

Originally Posted by avantman42

I think her point is that Amazon will do whatever they think is going to maximise their profits, which may or may not be what consumers want them to do.

As an example, Amazon may decide to release the next Kindle with support for ePub but not Mobi, and to stop selling ebooks in Mobi format. If they did that, then everyone that currently owns a Kindle would be unable to buy more ebooks from Amazon unless they bought a new e-reader*. That wouldn't be good for those consumers.

*Technically, those people could strip the DRM from ePubs and convert them to Mobi, or install Duokan, but it still wouldn't be a friendly thing for Amazon to do.

I don't expect any company to maintain an obsolete technology for ever, but Amazon would have to be a lot stupider than I think they are to spring a scenario like the one you suggest on millions of customers. I imagine they would keep parallel systems going for quite a few years.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by avantman42

As an example, Amazon may decide to release the next Kindle with support for ePub but not Mobi, and to stop selling ebooks in Mobi format.

Originally Posted by DMB

I don't expect any company to maintain an obsolete technology for ever, but Amazon would have to be a lot stupider than I think they are to spring a scenario like the one you suggest on millions of customers. I imagine they would keep parallel systems going for quite a few years.

I completely agree. I certainly wasn't suggesting that my scenario was likely. I was simply giving a scenario of something that Amazon could do which was relevant to this forum, and would not be good for consumers.

I think if Amazon thought my scenario was in their best interests, they'd do it in a heartbeat, but I don't think they'll decide it is in their best interests, and so I don't think they'll do it.

[Ken Irving]

About formats, wasn't there a problem with the Ibook formats? that can only be read on Apple devices? Or the B&N Epubs that can only be read on a B&N reader?

It is not so much the format that is the problem with Amazon's azw or nearly everyone else's epub, but rather what controls the digital-rights encryption. Amazon owns and controls both the "azw" format used on Kindle and the method of digital-rights management (DRM) used to encrypt it. The epub format is an open standard, free to use, established by the International Digital Publishing Forum. There are two or three different (and proprietary) methods of digital-rights encryption used on epub books, though Adobe Content Server (through the free software Adobe Digital Editions) is probably the main one at the moment. Theoretically an epub DRMed with Adobe can be read legally on any device or software that uses the same encryption method, thought it's not quite as simple as copying files from one place to another. An encrypted Amazon file, though, can only be read (again, legally) with a device or software either owned or licensed by Amazon. Apple uses epub, but its own DRm, so reading an ebook bought from Apple essentially comes with the same type of restriction as an ebook bought from Amazon.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by Ken Irving

It is not so much the format that is the problem with Amazon's azw or nearly everyone else's epub, but rather what controls the digital-rights encryption. Amazon owns and controls both the "azw" format used on Kindle and the method of digital-rights management (DRM) used to encrypt it. The epub format is an open standard, free to use, established by the International Digital Publishing Forum. There are two or three different (and proprietary) methods of digital-rights encryption used on epub books, though Adobe Content Server (through the free software Adobe Digital Editions) is probably the main one at the moment. Theoretically an epub DRMed with Adobe can be read legally on any device or software that uses the same encryption method, thought it's not quite as simple as copying files from one place to another. An encrypted Amazon file, though, can only be read (again, legally) with a device or software either owned or licensed by Amazon. Apple uses epub, but its own DRm, so reading an ebook bought from Apple essentially comes with the same type of restriction as an ebook bought from Amazon.

ADE is only free for the end user, it's far from free for libraries.

So we bought the software. It cost $10,000 (one time fee), and a $1,500 annual maintenance fee. In addition, Adobe charges an eight cent fee per transaction — where “transaction” equals a checkout. Public library records are considered “temporary.” “Permanent” records have a higher fee of twenty-three cents. Interestingly, that transaction fee works out to about a third of the Overdrive storage fee.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by DMB

I don't expect any company to maintain an obsolete technology for ever, but Amazon would have to be a lot stupider than I think they are to spring a scenario like the one you suggest on millions of customers. I imagine they would keep parallel systems going for quite a few years.

Oddly, there are quite a few people on this site who berate Amazon for not immediately moving to ePub (one guy in particular).
Those people seem to have no idea of the disruption that such a move would cause(nor apparently, any sympathy for Amazon customers).

[Indio777]

In terms of buying up other companies, etc., Amazon isn't doing anything that other companies (such as Google and Apple) aren't also doing.

I have been a customer of Amazon for years. Among other things, I like the selection (I buy all sorts of things, not just books), fast shipping (via Amazon Prime), easy returns, and yes, prices. Not everything I buy online is from Amazon, but I always check the site.

Of course, Amazon is not "my friend" at least not in the sense that the writer of the article person apparently thinks it should be. It's a business.

Do I like everything they do? Of course not. But what big company is perfect?

That being said, the article was interesting even if I don't necessarily have the same point of view and I look forward to reading part two.

And yes, the placement of the Amazon ad at the top of the page is a bit, well, unfortunate.

[DMB]

Originally Posted by Indio777

In terms of buying up other companies, etc., Amazon isn't doing anything that other companies (such as Google and Apple) aren't also doing.

I have been a customer of Amazon for years. Among other things, I like the selection (I buy all sorts of things, not just books), fast shipping (via Amazon Prime), easy returns, and yes, prices. Not everything I buy online is from Amazon, but I always check the site.

Of course, Amazon is not "my friend" at least not in the sense that the writer of the article person apparently thinks it should be. It's a business.

Do I like everything they do? Of course not. But what big company is perfect?

That being said, the article was interesting even if I don't necessarily have the same point of view and I look forward to reading part two.

And yes, the placement of the Amazon ad at the top of the page is a bit, well, unfortunate.

Is that a synonym for "risible"? I laughed my socks off.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Indio777

In terms of buying up other companies, etc., Amazon isn't doing anything that other companies (such as Google and Apple) aren't also doing.

I have been a customer of Amazon for years. Among other things, I like the selection (I buy all sorts of things, not just books), fast shipping (via Amazon Prime), easy returns, and yes, prices. Not everything I buy online is from Amazon, but I always check the site.

Of course, Amazon is not "my friend" at least not in the sense that the writer of the article person apparently thinks it should be. It's a business.

Do I like everything they do? Of course not. But what big company is perfect?

That being said, the article was interesting even if I don't necessarily have the same point of view and I look forward to reading part two.

And yes, the placement of the Amazon ad at the top of the page is a bit, well, unfortunate.

It certainly seems ironic. Maybe he'll address his dependence on Amazon in Part2. The issue, really, is whether his criticisms are well-founded.

[Indio777]

Originally Posted by DMB

Is that a synonym for "risible"? I laughed my socks off.

Well, I was trying to be kind.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Until the consumer wants something that Amazon does not want.

Originally Posted by frahse

What is your point Mrs Joseph?

Originally Posted by avantman42

I think her point is that Amazon will do whatever they think is going to maximise their profits, which may or may not be what consumers want them to do.

As an example, Amazon may decide to release the next Kindle with support for ePub but not Mobi, and to stop selling ebooks in Mobi format. If they did that, then everyone that currently owns a Kindle would be unable to buy more ebooks from Amazon unless they bought a new e-reader*. That wouldn't be good for those consumers.

*Technically, those people could strip the DRM from ePubs and convert them to Mobi, or install Duokan, but it still wouldn't be a friendly thing for Amazon to do.

^ This.

If you, Frahse, believe that Amazon is your friend...I have a couple of bridges that I can sell you. The prices will be very reasonable and the insurance is cheap!

[Indio777]

Originally Posted by stonetools

It certainly seems ironic. Maybe he'll address his dependence on Amazon in Part2. The issue, really, is whether his criticisms are well-founded.

Agreed. Certainly he has facts, but does all of this make Amazon anymore of an "evil" company than other companies who engage in similar practices? I am waiting to see what is said in part 2.