PDF is not an eBook format

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

More likely a bunch of cheap tools done poorly.

Which tools are you referring to?

[rlauzon]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

What is the $150 license for? I have never paid for a special license.

I don't use Microsoft products. Any software that requires Windows will also require me to purchase a copy of Windows in order to run it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Maybe... but PDF isn't designed to be converted. It's just designed to be read. Lack of easy hacking opportunities is not a good reason to criticize the format.

If you want something you can convert, get an RTF file.

But a lot of free eBooks on the net are PDF and we want to read them on our portable devices. The PDF are made for letter sized pages. So we want to convert them to a proper format. But they don't convert without errors because the idiots who think PDF is a good eBook format don't give a shit about the people who will actually want to read the eBook.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I don't use Microsoft products. Any software that requires Windows will also require me to purchase a copy of Windows in order to run it.

That wasn't a problem for me. I paid $7 for an original OEM XP Pro CD with key.

[WillAdams]

jswolf, the best software I'm aware of for converting a .pdf into an editable text file w/ formatting and quite good paragraph recognition is Marcel Weiher's TextLighting.app (although originally written for Mac OS X, I believe there's a version for Linux and w/ the state of GNUstep, it could probably be made available for Windows. Inexpensive shareware, ob. discl. I was a beta tester).

As regards complaints about .pdf tool implementations, well, the specification is freely downloadable, so anyone who wants to create a better tool for it certainly could.

William

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I don't use Microsoft products. Any software that requires Windows will also require me to purchase a copy of Windows in order to run it.

So, most likely you run Mac or Linux. There is a Mac version of Office. If you are on Linux you can by CrossOver Linux for $40.

But, perhaps someone that has one of the tools can compare the size of a non-tagged and tagged PDF for us rather than telling you how bad the tools you are using are.

BOb

[ProfJulie]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

But, perhaps someone that has one of the tools can compare the size of a non-tagged and tagged PDF for us rather than telling you how bad the tools you are using are.

BOb

I already did that with one file I tested! See the last paragraph in reply #28.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But a lot of free eBooks on the net are PDF and we want to read them on our portable devices. The PDF are made for letter sized pages. So we want to convert them to a proper format. But they don't convert without errors because the idiots who think PDF is a good eBook format don't give a shit about the people who will actually want to read the eBook.

Again, that's not a fault of the format, that's the fault of the people who create documents that aren't formatted properly. You want to use a piece of software, it's up to you to learn how to use it properly. We, as e-book readers, must tell producers when they are not properly creating their formats, advise them to do the job properly, or lose our business. Producers must learn how to do it properly, or not do it at all.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I don't use Microsoft products. Any software that requires Windows will also require me to purchase a copy of Windows in order to run it.

Well, if that's the price you have to pay for a properly formatted document...

Look, you don't want to buy Windows, and that's more than understandable (I don't think too many people here would argue that point). If I ever decide to go with InDesign (mainly for ePub generation), I'll have to upgrade Windows, whether I like it or not. But for the purposes of this discussion, the tools are there, if you decide to use them.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Again, that's not a fault of the format, that's the fault of the people who create documents that aren't formatted properly. You want to use a piece of software, it's up to you to learn how to use it properly. We, as e-book readers, must tell producers when they are not properly creating their formats, advise them to do the job properly, or lose our business. Producers must learn how to do it properly, or not do it at all.

But, the problem is that too many people purchase PDF format eBooks and that sends the message that PDF is a good format for eBooks. So what happens? We get more PDF when we need less. Well we did let Tor know that PDF was not what we wanted and they did listen and now we have HTML available for doing the eBook conversions from. But most won't listen.

[ProfJulie]

It seems that those who believe the PDF format is not a viable ebook format hold fast to their beliefs because:

1) Many of the PDF books they've experienced in the past were not generated into a proper eBook format

2) They don't have the tools to capitalize on the features that make the PDF format a viable ebook format

3) They don't know how or are unable to hack existing PDF files to make them work with their electronic reader devices

No matter that the PDF format can reflow to accommodate just about every screen size. Because hardware developers and eBook publishers don't know about or use these features, let's just reject the format, call it junk and be done with it.

I don't think anyone here is stating that the PDF format is the BEST format to use for eBooks, but so far I have not seen any alternate view here that rules it out as a viable eBook format

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

I don't think anyone here is stating that the PDF format is the BEST format to use for eBooks, but so far I have not seen any alternate view here that rules it out as a viable eBook format

Seconded.

[JSWolf]

We need to seperate types of eBooks then we can say where PDF works and where PDF fails...

PDF fails for books that are mostly text based. Like say the latest Star Trek book for example.

Now where PDF is good is for things like text books or things you may want to print in a complex format.

And yes, the PDF implementation on most eink readers is awful. The iLiad has the best PDF viewer for it of any of the eink based readers.

[NatCh]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Seconded.

I'd agree with that statement too, with the addition that I don't particularly want to use PDF myself.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

I don't use Microsoft products. Any software that requires Windows will also require me to purchase a copy of Windows in order to run it.

Ah, I understand. I missed that point, so even if the product is free it costs too much for you. That clears up a lot about your opinion of PDF.

Dale