Penguin to publish new titles simultaneously as e-books

[jgray]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

Does anyone know why I have to use Internet Explorer to download DRM'd ebooks? It seems Firefox is not acceptable on any site including Fictionwise and my library.

I know that is true if you are buying a LIT ebook. I don't know about the other formats. As to the LIT ebooks, that is Microsoft's doing. The way they do the DRM activation requires their browser (surprised?) and won't work with anyone else's browser.

[Moonraker]

I know that is true if you are buying a LIT ebook. I don't know about the other formats. As to the LIT ebooks, that is Microsoft's doing. The way they do the DRM activation requires their browser (surprised?) and won't work with anyone else's browser.

That doesn't surprise me in respect of Lit books.

However, My library does not stock Lit books. They have .pdf and .prc only. When I download a Mobipocket .prc it tells me I need IE. The ebooks just won't download using Firefox.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by lee1234

Someone should write to Penguin and ask them to lower their e-book price.

@ lee1234 : see posts 5, 8, 9, 14...

perhaps "someone" could be you as well ?

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by jgray

I know that is true if you are buying a LIT ebook. I don't know about the other formats. As to the LIT ebooks, that is Microsoft's doing. The way they do the DRM activation requires their browser (surprised?) and won't work with anyone else's browser.

yes i discovered that as well the first time i bought a drm-ed LIT book. not surprised but very cranky about it, since i make it a point never to use IE if i can possibly avoid it. bloody Micro$oft, they're on my list....

[TallMomof2]

Originally Posted by Moonraker

That doesn't surprise me in respect of Lit books.

However, My library does not stock Lit books. They have .pdf and .prc only. When I download a Mobipocket .prc it tells me I need IE. The ebooks just won't download using Firefox.

I use Fictionwise all the time and have no problem downloading any format EXCEPT DRMed .lit with Firefox. The only time I fire up IE is when I have to download a DRMed .lit.

[jgray]

My solution is a bit technical for some folks here, but I'll tell you what I do. I setup a virtual machine and installed a separate copy of Windows in the VM. I have IE and a few other things installed in that VM that I don't want on my regular PC. When I need to buy a DRMed ebook, run a Java app, etc. I fire up the virtual Windows. You can use either VMware Player or VirtualBox for the VM. Both are free.

On my real PC I run Firefox. I haven't had any problem with it for the non-DRMed stuff. Of course, when buying ebooks with DRM, I go with LIT. Until recently, there wasn't anything I could do with a DRMed PRC. Even now, I still go with LIT, as the HTML used is a bit more standard than the Mobipocket variety. This makes it a little easier to repurpose for my reading needs.

[Olympus]

The response from Peguin received within the hour

Dear Olympus <edited ...:-)>

Thank you for your interest in Penguin's e-book publishing plans. This is of course new territory for us and so we are very interested in the response of our readers. Our pricing decision is one we have adopted globally for the time being. We see the e-book as simply a new way for readers to access the work of our authors and so the price will be the same as the print price of the edition currently available. So, if a book is in hardback priced at £18.99 that will be the e-book price and once that book goes into paperback at, say £8.99, the e-book price will be dropped accordingly.

If you have any further questions with regard to Penguin's e-book publishing plans, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Best regards
Penguin Online

[zelda_pinwheel]

Dear A K,

Thank you for your interest in Penguin's e-book publishing plans. This is of course new territory for us and so we are very interested in the response of our readers. Our pricing decision is one we have adopted globally for the time being. We see the e-book as simply a new way for readers to access the work of our authors and so the price will be the same as the print price of the edition currently available. So, if a book is in hardback priced at £18.99 that will be the e-book price and once that book goes into paperback at, say £8.99, the e-book price will be dropped accordingly.

If you have any further questions with regard to Penguin's e-book publishing plans, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Best regards

Penguin Online

(the bold is mine).

I'm pleased to see that they claim to be very interested in the response of their readers, and also that they mention they have adopted this pricing decision for the time being. Perhaps this means we can convince them to modify it. i also notice they make no distinction between the *content* (the text) and the *container* (hardcover, paperback, ebook...) ("We see the e-book as simply a new way for readers to access the work of our authors"), as we were discussing on a different thread here. perhaps we should mention that to them.

in any case, the key point to retain is that apparently they listen to their readers so YOU ALL SHOULD WRITE TO THEM ALSO (the sooner the better) if you want to see some reasonably priced ebooks from penguin.

[EDIT : i see they are sending the same reply to everyone, apparently. however, this probably still means that *someone* at Penguin is reading our mails, and should not discourage us from continuing to write.]

[JWLaRue]

ZP,

Sure looks to me like they basically blew you off. You're correct, they haven't figured out the advantages and disadvantages of the content and container now being separate things.

Doesn't make me want to deal with them at this point.

-Jeff

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by JWLaRue

ZP,

Sure looks to me like they basically blew you off. You're correct, they haven't figured out the advantages and disadvantages of the content and container now being separate things.

Doesn't make me want to deal with them at this point.

-Jeff

well, i think you're partly right (they haven't figured a *lot* of stuff out) but i'm not sure i would go so far as to think they "blew me off". they did send an identical letter to at least 2 of us (and probably everyone who wrote), and i would have appreciated a little more reactivity, but at least they went to the trouble to answer at all, and *claimed* at least to be very interested in what readers think of this new-to-Penguin market. this is why i think MORE PEOPLE SHOULD WRITE and also why i replied to their email as follows :

Dear Penguin,

Thanks very much for your reply. I am really pleased to hear that you
are open to hearing the reactions of your readers. I do understand
your point of view, that ebooks are a new way to access books. I also
appreciate very much your intention to reduce the price of the ebook
following the release of a less expensive paperback edition. I think
most readers have integrated the publishing model of "if you want it
right away, you have to pay for the more expensive hardcover edition",
and I think this model can be applied to ebooks as well (more
expensive for new books, price reductions for older books).

However I think there is an important distinction to make between a
paperbook and an ebook, not least because once you have read a
paperbook, if you don't want to keep it, you can sell it in a
second-hand bookshop, thereby somewhat reducing its initial cost to
you (even if artificially). This is not possible with an ebook.

Also, more and more readers make a distinction between the *content*
(the actual text of the book) and the *container* it is delivered in
(hardcover, paperback, ebook...). Just as no reader would pay the same
price for a paperback as they would a hardcover, I think very few will
be willing to pay the same price for an ebook container. A hardcover
is clearly more expensive than a paperback to produce, therefore the
price difference can be justified.

However following this logic, an ebook is significantly *less*
expensive to produce (no costs for paper, ink, printing, binding,
shipping, storage, handling, inventory management...). These are
significant savings for the publisher. My opinion as a reader and
buyer of books is that following the logic outlined above, an ebook
should be priced at half the price of the paperbook, at most. This
provides for paying the author, editor and publisher, but takes into
account the absence of other costs in the production chain.

So, taking your example, when you release a hardback at £18.99, the
ebook could be priced at around £9.50. Then, when the paperback is
released at a price of £8.99, the price of the ebook would be reduced
to £4.50. Given that ebook production costs almost nothing to the
publisher once the initial file is created, even at these
significantly lower prices the publisher does not have to fear a loss,
and in fact may dramatically increase their sales.

I feel sure that if a publisher passes these savings along to their
readers in the form of ebooks priced less than paperbooks, this will
in turn encourage the customer to buy more books from that publisher,
because they will appreciate the honest dealings of this publisher and
want to continue to do business with them.

Thank you very much for your attention,

A K

seriously, maybe i'm naïve but i do think if enough people write to them saying they will not pay hardcover price for an ebook, they will be forced to listen because they want to sell books. *what* are y'all waiting for ???

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

seriously, maybe i'm naïve but i do think if enough people write to them saying they will not pay hardcover price for an ebook, they will be forced to listen because they want to sell books. *what* are y'all waiting for ???

That's is a well written letter and very eloquent. My question would be, where do you come up with "half". That seem arbitray to me. My thought would be that if you remove the "cost" to the publisher of printing, binding, layout, distribution, wholesale (if they sell the ebook direct) of a printed book then from there they can determince the price for the ebook. For example, if the make "$5" per printed book (assuming they sell 100% of the) then the ebook price should start at "$5".

Anyway, this could be less or more than half... but think it is maybe a more reasonable way to come up with a "suggested" retail. Also, remember retailers can price stuff as they want, they do not have to follow the suggested retail.

BOb

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

That's is a well written letter and very eloquent. My question would be, where do you come up with "half". That seem arbitray to me. My thought would be that if you remove the "cost" to the publisher of printing, binding, layout, distribution, wholesale (if they sell the ebook direct) of a printed book then from there they can determince the price for the ebook. For example, if the make "$5" per printed book (assuming they sell 100% of the) then the ebook price should start at "$5".

Anyway, this could be less or more than half... but think it is maybe a more reasonable way to come up with a "suggested" retail. Also, remember retailers can price stuff as they want, they do not have to follow the suggested retail.

BOb

where do i come up with half... well, to be honest it *is* arbitrary ; in the manifesto of the site mozambook (free public domain ebooks in french) they propose this as a reasonable compromise for the price of ebooks and their logic seems completely defendable to me, so i'm spreading the word. if the *actual* production costs were greater than 50% of the pbook price, i agree with you, it is reasonable to modify this figure (i doubt we could ever hope to see a publisher sell an ebook for *less* than half of the pbook price). however i find it frankly kind of insulting when a publisher releases a hardcover at 20€ and the ebook at 19€. what is even the point of that reduction ? it almost seems like they are taunting us.

as for retailers, obviously they don't have to follow the suggestion of the publisher, however they are subject to competition, and i don't mind checking 2 or 3 different sites to see which is the least expensive when i buy...

you know the expression, "vote with your pocketbook"...

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

you know the expression, "vote with your pocketbook"...

Yep... which is basically my choice rather than a letter writting campaing... not that I fault you guys for doing it. I applaud it.

However, my personal limit for an ebook is $10. If it is more than $10 I generally won't buy it. I'll wait for the price to come down. There enough out there in the <$10 set of ebooks that I will be fine for quite a while. I also have another basic personal rule that I don't start reading a series unless all have been released. (Broke it twice, Harry Potter and Sword of Truth). So a sub-rule now is all books in series must be <$10 also.

My only fear would be the publishers thinking... Gee we put out ebooks and no one buys them, let's stop doing it. When a price reduction might increase their sales 10 fold.

BOb

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Yep... which is basically my choice rather than a letter writting campaing... not that I fault you guys for doing it. I applaud it.

you can do both you know. and it's probably more effective to vote with your pocketbook if they *know* that's what you are doing.

My only fear would be the publishers thinking... Gee we put out ebooks and no one buys them, let's stop doing it. When a price reduction might increase their sales 10 fold.

BOb

...thus the value of writing letters.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

...thus the value of writing letters.

Touché.