MobileRead Duplicate Classic Genre month poll - Page 2

HomeInMyShoes · 07-25-2011, 06:43 AM

removed to put in other thread

arkietech · 07-25-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Really...?? Now you're starting to be silly. Lord of the Rings, maybe classic. Harry Potter. Good luck with that.

Could someone define "Classic" for me? ..other than still popular and not new.

HomeInMyShoes · 07-25-2011, 09:35 AM

^Much like the Jackalope, it is just hard to know if it really exists. It's not even in the wikipedia list of genres because it's not a genre. I'd define it as old and stuffy. But that would be me just trying to start a fight.

Now I've got to get back to Pride and Prejudice and A Journey to the Center of the Earth. I would classify those as period fiction and fantasy/science fiction. But your mileage may vary on those classifications.

jgaiser · 07-25-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkietech

Could someone define "Classic" for me? ..other than still popular and not new.

To paraphrase former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:

"A Classic is hard to define, but I'll know it when I see it" ...

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

A classic book is a book accepted as being exemplary or noteworthy, either through an imprimatur such as being listed in any of the Western canons or through a reader's own personal opinion.

So I guess if Jon considers Harry Potter to be a "Classic" he's welcome to his opinion. I, on the other hand, do not consider it a classic.

JSWolf · 07-25-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

You're free to nominate it, but I doubt you'll get the requisite number of supporting votes to put it on the ballot. And you'll face a lot of contempt for insisting that a book less than 20 years old is a "classic."

Popularity, even with immense current relevance, is not the same as staying power.

The first Harry Potter book was published 14 years ago and it still has plenty of staying power. Look at the renewed interest with the last movie and now Pottermore and the eBooks. What is your definition of a classic other then 20 years or more that Harry Potter misses out on?

JSWolf · 07-25-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

To paraphrase former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart:

"A Classic is hard to define, but I'll know it when I see it" ...

From Wikipedia:

So I guess if Jon considers Harry Potter to be a "Classic" he's welcome to his opinion. I, on the other hand, do not consider it a classic.

Harry Potter is noteworthy because it got a lot of kids and even adults reading. It became very popular and after 14 years is still popular.

The problem with classic is that some of the books classified as classic don't fit. So what's wrong with something that's going strong after 14 years, has immense popularity, is not going away any time soon and will soon have renewed interest as well.

pilotbob · 07-25-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The first Harry Potter book was published 14 years ago and it still has plenty of staying power. Look at the renewed interest with the last movie and now Pottermore and the eBooks. What is your definition of a classic other then 20 years or more that Harry Potter misses out on?

I'm curious John, have you not yet read Harry Potter?

BOb

Elfwreck · 07-25-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Harry Potter is noteworthy because it got a lot of kids and even adults reading. It became very popular and after 14 years is still popular.

This much is true. It's had a tremendous impact. However, "great social impact" is not the same as "great literature." Not that classics need to be great. However, the name does strongly imply that they have appeal over a long period of time, and that's not proven.

Quote:

The problem with classic is that some of the books classified as classic don't fit. So what's wrong with something that's going strong after 14 years, has immense popularity, is not going away any time soon and will soon have renewed interest as well.

There's no indication that the Potter books will continue to be popular in another five years, after the end of the movie franchise, although it's possible that a tv series or mini-series could keep the books selling.

I suspect that, in another 10 years, the movies will be remembered and still widely watched; the books will be available, but no more relevant than any other modern fantasy series.

However, since we don't have a strict definition of "classic," and they are well-known as influential books, I can't see anyone insisting you can't nominate one of them. I just don't expect it to win.

JSWolf · 07-25-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

This much is true. It's had a tremendous impact. However, "great social impact" is not the same as "great literature." Not that classics need to be great. However, the name does strongly imply that they have appeal over a long period of time, and that's not proven.

There's no indication that the Potter books will continue to be popular in another five years, after the end of the movie franchise, although it's possible that a tv series or mini-series could keep the books selling.

I suspect that, in another 10 years, the movies will be remembered and still widely watched; the books will be available, but no more relevant than any other modern fantasy series.

However, since we don't have a strict definition of "classic," and they are well-known as influential books, I can't see anyone insisting you can't nominate one of them. I just don't expect it to win.

A lot of classic had social impact, but now they have none at all. Do they have to have had social impact or still have social impact? Harry Potter did/does have social impact as it got a lot of people reading. So that counts.

I cannot say what will happen in 10 years. But it is a series that brought books to a lot of people who were not reading. That's social impact,

JSWolf · 07-25-2011, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I'm curious John, have you not yet read Harry Potter?

BOb

Yes, I have. I've read the entire series. But what other then really old does Harry Potter not fit in terms of classic? The first book is 14 years old already.

pilotbob · 07-25-2011, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Yes, I have. I've read the entire series. But what other then really old does Harry Potter not fit in terms of classic? The first book is 14 years old already.

Not my point. Why would you nominate a book you have already read? Seems like a waste of a nomination to me.

BOb

Nyssa · 07-25-2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Not my point. Why would you nominate a book you have already read? Seems like a waste of a nomination to me.

BOb

Not really. Nominating a book you've already read makes a lot of sense if you've really enjoyed the book, would like to read it again, want a chance to share it with others and would like to discuss it.
Personally, I am not ready to reread the Harry Potter series, but I can definitely see doing so in the future. I am, however, currently rereading the Hollows/Rachel Morgan series; its been 2 years (give or take) since I read it the first time and I would have nominated it for the Fantasy category.

JSWolf · 07-25-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Not my point. Why would you nominate a book you have already read? Seems like a waste of a nomination to me.

BOb

I can see a lot of people buying HP again as eBooks and rereading. I'm expecting a lot on MR to buy them.

Nyssa · 07-26-2011, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by issybird

To reiterate, my point is that we can't have a poll for every issue that comes down the pike. it's inefficient and contentious and then the phrase, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. "What the group wants as a whole" almost certainly will narrow the appeal of the book club to the barest possible majority.

- Quoted from Book Club Administration: New years reading categories.

I guess Issybird was right. Not only does it seem like we are headed for the continued 2 months of classics, we also have The MobileRead Literary Book Club which offers classics year round.

Which is kind of funny seeing as so many were convinced we were goint to have a fantasy and science fiction overload.

There are 4 days of voting left. Classics will still have a home here (in either May or December), I just hope that we can broaden the appeal of the club a little more by adding one new category to the list.

issybird · 07-26-2011, 09:36 AM

A big part of the problem here is that we're talking apples and oranges; it's been said upthread. Classics is not a genre, a la SF or romance or mystery, any of which could qualify as a classic. As a big umbrella category, classic isn't terribly limiting in regard to genre (no manga?). The limitation is to restrict it to books which have been time-tested and are highly regarded; they have made it past the stage in which a work is merely dated or of period interest.

From my POV, SFF tends to take over a lot of other categories. I love humor, but the nominee a month ago was SF humor. I passed, but I happily gleaned several suggestions from the nomination list.

We also have more than one "open" category, next month even. if it seems important to mandate a genre not listed (especially if you find that open months tend to be redundant), why not co-opt one of those months to historical fiction, or what have you? Would that "broaden the appeal?"

Finally, while the Literary Book Club may read classics, that's not the point of it. It can be any book which is considered to have literary merit and not just popular appeal. It can be a classic, but it doesn't have to be.

I think the conflation of the terms genre and category has caused a lot of the head-butting here.

View Poll Results: Should we change one of the classic months to another genre?
Yes - Change it	12	30.77%
No - Leave it as it is	20	51.28%
Either way is fine with me	7	17.95%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

07-25-2011, 06:43 AM	#16
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	removed to put in other thread Last edited by HomeInMyShoes; 07-25-2011 at 06:45 AM. Reason: removed to put in other thread

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07-25-2011, 09:35 AM	#18
HomeInMyShoes Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,226 Karma: 67780237 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: none	^Much like the Jackalope, it is just hard to know if it really exists. It's not even in the wikipedia list of genres because it's not a genre. I'd define it as old and stuffy. But that would be me just trying to start a fight. Now I've got to get back to Pride and Prejudice and A Journey to the Center of the Earth. I would classify those as period fiction and fantasy/science fiction. But your mileage may vary on those classifications.

07-26-2011, 09:36 AM	#30
issybird o saeclum infacetum Posts: 21,514 Karma: 236076651 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: New England Device: Mini, H2O, Glo HD, Aura One, PW4, PW5	A big part of the problem here is that we're talking apples and oranges; it's been said upthread. Classics is not a genre, a la SF or romance or mystery, any of which could qualify as a classic. As a big umbrella category, classic isn't terribly limiting in regard to genre (no manga?). The limitation is to restrict it to books which have been time-tested and are highly regarded; they have made it past the stage in which a work is merely dated or of period interest. From my POV, SFF tends to take over a lot of other categories. I love humor, but the nominee a month ago was SF humor. I passed, but I happily gleaned several suggestions from the nomination list. We also have more than one "open" category, next month even. if it seems important to mandate a genre not listed (especially if you find that open months tend to be redundant), why not co-opt one of those months to historical fiction, or what have you? Would that "broaden the appeal?" Finally, while the Literary Book Club may read classics, that's not the point of it. It can be any book which is considered to have literary merit and not just popular appeal. It can be a classic, but it doesn't have to be. I think the conflation of the terms genre and category has caused a lot of the head-butting here.