Consumer Reports: Nook Beats The Kindle

[ApK]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

Hypocrisy? B&N's 'lock in':
A) lets you buy popular books from many sources other than B&N, and

This is not the issue I'm talking about. There are plenty of other threads addressing this point, but a brief tangent: the upshot is that it's a non-issue. There are plenty of places to get books for Kindle, too and if you mean the 4 other big general DRM bookstores, there is very little reason to shop between them (short of the occasional Kobo coupon) and virtually no one has reported selection at Amazon OR the epub store causing them an issue either way.

B) lets you read your B&N purchased ebooks on e-ink readers other than then Nook line.

If this is true, great. I wouldn't mind seeing a link to details, I admittedly have not kept up with nook news.
It was my understanding that books bought under B&N's DRM, which is not the ADE DRM which they also use, would be just as 'locked in' to nook stuff as similar Amazon purchases would be lock into Kindle stuff.
In either case, the practical up shot is: No one cares. Another non issue.
Reports here indicate that virtually no one seems to feel locked in. Whether it's because they only have a Kindle and so have no need to read on another eink device, or because they strip DRM so they can read on anything they want, either way, if it doesn't affect people, it doesn't affect them.

And for the record I have no objection to truthfully pointing out the limitations, especially when giving buying advice. I object to spreading unwarranted FUD about the Kindle by acting like these limitations are making millions of users unhappy, while dismissing the nooks limitations as non-issues.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by ApK

Reports here indicate that virtually no one seems to feel locked in. Whether it's because they only have a Kindle and so have no need to read on another eink device, or because they strip DRM so they can read on anything they want, either way, if it doesn't affect people, it doesn't affect them.

This is exactly how I feel about it. The Kindle and Nook libraries are both very extensive, and I've never experienced (or heard of) being able to get a book from one but not the other. (Where I do think there's a difference is magazines. I think if you look for particular magazines, you'll find them in one store and not the other.) Maybe it's because of my reading habits, but I've never felt deprived because I could "only" shop for commercial books at the Kindle store.

Originally Posted by ApK

And for the record I have no objection to truthfully pointing out the limitations, especially when giving buying advice. I object to spreading unwarranted FUD about the Kindle by acting like these limitations are making millions of users unhappy, while dismissing the nooks limitations as non-issues.

There are lots of things one could be critical of the Kindle for (e.g., lack of a card slot, inability (for now) to borrow from public libraries), but there's no reason to go spreading untruths about Kindles.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by ApK

It seems to me that most of us Kindle owners here are quite realistic and honest about our devices. You (that is, a few Kindle-bashing nook fanbois) just can't seem to see--or at least you claim to be unable to see--the truth that we actually like what we say we like. You keep using words like 'dated', which has a lot of negative import, and 'obsolete'. The truth is, just being older does not make something dated or obsolete. The Kindle is proven and reliable and it's hardware gives us many features and benefits we like that NO other reader offers.
We don't feel 'locked in' to Amazon, even those us who buy from Amazon and keep DRM intact, because shopping at Amazon and reading on Kindles and Kindle apps is part of the reasons why we chose the Kindle. (Yes, I'm presuming to speak for Kindle owners as a group. Of course individuals vary.)
And I see horrible hypocrisy in crying about Amazon's 'lock in' while dismissing that B&N proprietary DRM results in exactly the same sort of 'lock in' for those who choose to purchase those books from b&n...that being the only device integrated store, which I suspect the majority of owners use.
I see the same hypocrisy in other threads with the claims that using some 3rd party tools along with the Kindle somehow 'doesn't count' or something because it's 'not supported' but the buggy, hidden, disavowed browser fragment in the new nook some how qualifies as a feature.

When and if Amazon makes a touch model. and they probably will, depending on what they come up with, some of us will like and some of won't.

And I predict they when that happens, you will doubtlessly tell the ones who like it that they are 'backpedaling' and being 'Kindle fanbois' and you will tell those who don't like it that they don't really know what they like and must be lying or, have an 'obsolete tech fetish' or some nonsense.

Grr!

ApK

Again APK I think it's going to be interesting to see the reaction if/when Amazon puts out a touch kindle. I do having a feeling that many who dismiss a touch interface and will scream to the high heavens at how great the kindle is in it's current form will all of a sudden start cheering how wonderful the new kindle touch is. Not all but I think many upon many will.

and most kindle owners don't feel locked in because most don't even know they are locked in( well beside public domain Mobi format) When my friends and co workers who own kindles found out I was able to get library books and buy from stores other than BN they were shocked. You see the thing is, most kindle owner arent MR forum regulars. Many don't even know about Calbire, nor have even heard of ePub and many bought a kindle because that was the more advertised device.
Now while that may not be the case for the average MR forum regular to the rest, it's quite true

but we'll have to revisit this conversation when the kindle touch is released and then it'll be soo magical

[jocampo]

If Amazon decides to sell a Kindle touch would be different, because of course , we will have and keep access to Amazon store, which is not possible with a Nook ( rooting is not the same and unsupported by B&N). Plus for sure, the device will get landscape mode and better PDF support, big misses on Nook Touch.

Most Kindle users will think twice if no physical buttons are provided though, me one of those.

Being touch screen does not magically turns a device a great ereader, there are much more factors to take into consideration, customer support and online bookstore just some of them.

[boswd]

like I said it'll be " magical" and itll "just work" and it'll be the greatest ereader to grace the human race

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by boswd

Again APK I think it's going to be interesting to see the reaction if/when Amazon puts out a touch kindle. I do having a feeling that many who dismiss a touch interface and will scream to the high heavens at how great the kindle is in it's current form will all of a sudden start cheering how wonderful the new kindle touch is. Not all but I think many upon many will.

The only other dedicated e-reader I've used is the Nook Color. I wasn't particularly impressed with the touch experience there. I'm not a big fan of the Kindle's keyboard, but at least it has a physical keyboard. Every touch interface I've used, I've missed the tactile feedback. (Haptic feedback just isn't the same thing. When I touch a screen w/ haptic feedback, my reaction is, "Great, I touched something. But how is that helping me know what I touched?". )

It's not impossible that Amazon will greatly improve the touch experience, but if they don't -- and all else being equal -- I won't consider upgrading. Giving me less surface area to touch safely while not greatly improving my navigation isn't something I would consider an upgrade.

Originally Posted by boswd

and most kindle owners don't feel locked in because most don't even know they are locked in well beside public domain Mobiformat, When my friends and co workers who own kindles found out I was able to get library books and buy from stores other than BN they were shocked. You see the thing is, most kindle owner arent MR forum regulars. Many don't even know about Calbire, nor have even heard of ePub and many bought a kindle because that was the more advertised device.
Now while that may not be the case for the average MR forum regular to the rest, it's quite true.

The library book thing is good. That's an advantage the epub devices have definitely had. Hopefully Amazon will be addressing that soon. But I'm still not seeing this huge raft of books I can buy from other stores I can't buy from Amazon.

Originally Posted by boswd

but we'll have to revisit this conversation when the kindle touch is release and then it'll be soo magical

True enough, although I'm not so sure about the "magical" part. I think that if Amazon released anything "magical", they'd get a lawsuit from Apple, since they think they have a patent on "magic".

[boswd]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

The only other dedicated e-reader I've used is the Nook Color. I wasn't particularly impressed with the touch experience there. I'm not a big fan of the Kindle's keyboard, but at least it has a physical keyboard. Every touch interface I've used, I've missed the tactile feedback. (Haptic feedback just isn't the same thing. When I touch a screen w/ haptic feedback, my reaction is, "Great, I touched something. But how is that helping me know what I touched?". )

It's not impossible that Amazon will greatly improve the touch experience, but if they don't -- and all else being equal -- I won't consider upgrading. Giving me less surface area to touch safely while not greatly improving my navigation isn't something I would consider an upgrade.



The library book thing is good. That's an advantage the epub devices have definitely had. Hopefully Amazon will be addressing that soon. But I'm still not seeing this huge raft of books I can buy from other stores I can't buy from Amazon.



True enough, although I'm not so sure about the "magical" part. I think that if Amazon released anything "magical", they'd get a lawsuit from Apple, since they think they have a patent on "magic".

I think Apple has already summoned Amazon to fork over the kindle 4 for patent infringement

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by boswd

most don't even know they are locked in

Any verifiable way to quantify this statement?

[JayB]

I think the new Kindle will have a touchscreen and be a 7" reader. Especially if Sony doesn't release a follow up to the PRS-950.

This is one major thing that could differentiate their product from the Nook Touch and Kobo.

The best part is it wouldn't be any bigger than the Kindle 3 is now because of the touch interface. So they could market it as they got rid of the keyboard and gave you more area for text.

[SCION]

Originally Posted by JayB

I think the new Kindle will have a touchscreen and be a 7" reader. Especially if Sony doesn't release a follow up to the PRS-950.

...

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!

I miss the screen size of my Sony 900. That's one of the reasons I love reading on the NOOKcolor. Now I've had to settle for the 6" screen on the new NOOK. I was so disappointed that they didn't release a NOOK Touch with the same size screen as the NOOKcolor.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

Any verifiable way to quantify this statement?

just talk to the average person, talk to people who own a kindle but who aren't all into the whole mobileread forums or calibre etc, Ask the average tweener if they know they are locked in.

I mean you do realize we represent a pretty small portion of the people who have ereaders don't you?

or do you have to call Steve O for any of your responses

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by jocampo

B&N customers are as locked as Kindle users when buying directly from their stores, assuming you don't know or don't. want break the encryption. You cannot read B&N books outside of B&N environment.
The main problem is DRM protection. If I buy a DRM free mobi book I can read wherever I want, even on your Sony via Calibre conversion.

Please stop spreading this misinformation. B&N uses a DRM system that is fully supported by Adobe. B&N books can be read on any reader using recent Adobe clients. Besides the B&N reader and apps, this includes the Boox reader (and probably a few others, but I can't find any exact info on which have upgraded in the last year and a half).

[Sil_liS]

This thread sounds like a debate on religion.

[TenaciousBadger]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

This thread sounds like a debate on religion.

But, but, but... it is!

Consumer Reports: Nook Beats The Kindle

No, it does not, and I'm not talking hardware either. I'm talking market. As long as B&N stays in the US it does not have a snowball's chance in hell to beat the Kindle (at least in my eyes ).
It might be the best machine out there but if I as a potential customer can't buy it, it matters little how great it is.

[ST-One]

Originally Posted by TenaciousBadger

But, but, but... it is!



No, it does not, and I'm not talking hardware either. I'm talking market. As long as B&N stays in the US it does not have a snowball's chance in hell to beat the Kindle (at least in my eyes ).
It might be the best machine out there but if I as a potential customer can't buy it, it matters little how great it is.

This German here had no problems at all to buy the Nook (either Nook).